|| ||Ingo Molnar <mingo-AT-elte.hu>|
|| ||Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol-AT-2ka.mipt.ru>|
|| ||Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3|
|| ||Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:45:05 +0100|
|| ||Ulrich Drepper <drepper-AT-redhat.com>, linux-kernel-AT-vger.kernel.org,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds-AT-linux-foundation.org>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan-AT-infradead.org>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch-AT-infradead.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm-AT-zip.com.au>,
Alan Cox <alan-AT-lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Zach Brown <zach.brown-AT-oracle.com>,
"David S. Miller" <davem-AT-davemloft.net>,
Suparna Bhattacharya <suparna-AT-in.ibm.com>,
Davide Libenzi <davidel-AT-xmailserver.org>,
Jens Axboe <jens.axboe-AT-oracle.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx-AT-linutronix.de>|
* Evgeniy Polyakov <email@example.com> wrote:
> My main concern was only about the situation, when we ends up with
> truly bloking context (like network), and this results in having
> thousands of threads doing the work - even having most of them
> sleeping, there is a problem with memory overhead and context
> switching, although it is usable situation, but when all of them are
> ready immediately - context switching will kill a machine even with
> O(1) scheduler which made situation damn better than before, but it is
> not a cure for the problem.
yes. This is why in the original fibril discussion i concentrated so
much on scheduling performance.
to me the picture is this: conceptually the scheduler runqueue is a
queue of work. You get items queued upon certain events, and they can
unqueue themselves. (there is also register context but that is already
optimized to death by hardware) So whatever scheduling overhead we have,
it's a pure software thing. It's because we have priorities attached.
It's because we have some legacies. Etc., etc. - it's all stuff /we/
wanted to add, but nothing truly fundamental on top of the basic 'work
now look at kevents as the queueing model. It does not queue 'tasks', it
lets user-space queue requests in essence, in various states. But it's
still the same conceptual thing: a memory buffer with some state
associated to it. Yes, it has no legacies, it has no priorities and
other queueing concepts attached to it ... yet. If kevents got
mainstream, it would get the same kind of pressure to grow 'more
advanced' event queueing and event scheduling capabilities.
Prioritization would be needed, etc.
So my fundamental claim is: a kernel thread /is/ our main request
structure. We've got tons of really good system calls that queue these
'requests' around the place and offer functionality around this concept.
Plus there's a 1.2+ billion lines of Linux userspace code that works
well with this abstraction - while there's nary a few thousand lines of
event-based user-space code.
I also say that you'll likely get kevents outperform threadlets. Maybe
even significantly so under the right conditions. But i very much
believe we want to get similar kind of performance out of thread/task
scheduling, and not introduce a parallel framework to do request
scheduling the hard way ... just because our task concept and scheduling
implementation got too fat. For the same reason i didnt really like
fibrils: they are nice, and Zach's core idea i think nicely survived in
the syslet/threadlet model too, but they are more limited than true
threads. So doing that parallel infrastructure, which really just
implements the same, and is only faster because it skips features, would
just be hiding the problem with our primary abstraction. Ok?
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