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Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3Posted Jan 29, 2007 8:16 UTC (Mon) by bronson (subscriber, #4806)In reply to: Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 by b3timmons Parent article: GPL 3: An Open-Source Earthquake? (CRN)
Of course I realized that draft 3 was not certain. Given how contentious draft 2 was, however, I'd have thought that releasing a draft 3 would be of critical importance. Even if it remains mostly unchanged, it could be accompanied by annotations or a document describing why the contentious sections are unchanged.
You view the kernel team's position statement timing as a political move. I see it more as an act of desperation. I don't think they wanted to resort to such theatrics; it's not their style. Whether it was justified or not, I think they must have felt like they were pretty much out of options.
You know, it's funny that each side is accusing the other of not listening. And even funnier that each side appears to be correct!
How can we break this communication breakdown? I can offer a suggestion... Release a draft 3. Then let the kernel guys could come up with an updated position statement. I think the MS-Novell deal and the patent clarifications would keep this statement a lot shorter than the last one.
The FSF could then respond, hopefully with more depth than last time (the clarification was awfully brief and dismissive). Above all, the FSF could demonstrate, using actual examples, what clauses the kernel guys could add to the GPLv3 to achieve their goals. Even if it's only academic in this case (presumably the kernel will remain GPLv2 forever), I think it's really worth keeping the kernel devs happy with the FSF's new licenses. You never know when a Linux Kernel NT prototype will be written and require an updated license. :)
Even if no agreement can be reached, at least this way each side would understand why things are the way they are. It would be a lot harder to write confusion off to "typical FSF bureaucratic BS" or "typical prima donna kernel whiners." Hopefully, the kernel guys would know how to modify the GPLv3 to suit their needs, a useful thing even if they never have the opportunity to take advantage of it.
The Linux kernel represents a ton of developers. I really hope that they can end up mostly satisfied with the new GPL.
I've learned a lot from this discussion, b3timmons. Thank you. I just wish it could have occurred somewhere on gplv3.fsf.org. :)
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Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 Posted Jan 29, 2007 15:25 UTC (Mon) by b3timmons (guest, #40286) [Link] bronson,
While I agree that it would be nice to see an updated draft soon, the contention really seems to come mainly from the kernel guys. Unfortunately, as RMS originally warned years ago, "Linux kernel = all of FOSS" in the minds of way too many people (I am not saying you!). You question whether the position statement was political, but of course we should note that Torvalds has for a long time played balancing acts of various sorts. Some of these acts involve being political whether he likes it or not. I cannot believe that all of those behind the position statement did not act without their employers in mind. Of course, there is nothing wrong with this in and of itself, but, IMHO, the statement was made with other entities in mind, such as Linus's employer, OSDL.
OTOH, the MS-Novell deal worries me, and I would not be surprised if it spooked Moglen, RMS, etc. into brainstorming about more crazy ways that free software can be made effectively nonfree. Note that they, like the other participants, are also representatives. They represent all people who expect the GPL to once again guarantee the freedom that, as stated in its preamble, it intends to guarantee.
You might interesting the thoughts of an upcoming legal eagle, ex-Novell guy Luis Villa. In particular, see his criticisms of both the FSF and the kernel guys:
Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 Posted Jan 29, 2007 21:45 UTC (Mon) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] The Linux Foundation desires a strong GPLv3, don't they? You imply that Linus and his "many interests" are bent on harpooning the new GPL. I find this extremely implausible. Much more likely is just typical communications difficulties, no? Especially when exacerbated by the FSF's bureaucracies. Yes, the position statement was too politically loaded, but I hope both parties can overcome this.
Apparently Eben is satisfied that GPLv3 draft 2 is sufficient to prevent the MS-Novell deal in the future. That's good enough for me! I do hope he and RMS are gaming future scenarios; given the skill with which Microsoft convinced Novell to sign this crazy deal, we can be quite sure that the opposition is doing so.
I met Luis a few times when I lived in Boston. I like the guy a lot and follow what he's doing pretty closely. I think he's spot on with pretty much everything he says.
You claim that the contention comes mainly from the kernel guys. Luis isn't a kernel guy, is he? LKMLers tend to loathe Slashdot but there are a number of dissenting voices here: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/06/2046257 Tectonic isn't a kernel mag: http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=914 (this is satire but its position is clear). I'm sure I could find more examples if I kept looking.
Yes, the vast majority of free software developers are silent on the matter. That should not be interpreted as tacit support for the gplv3! Make no mistake: the GPLv3 is still a very controversial license. I really hope the FSF takes the time to get it right.
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