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Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3Posted Jan 27, 2007 22:21 UTC (Sat) by grouch (guest, #27289)In reply to: Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 by vonbrand Parent article: GPL 3: An Open-Source Earthquake? (CRN)
Law is not C code. I can fiddle around with the kernel, determine the value of the output within the time it takes to compile and boot, and nobody will get sued as a result. If I fiddle around with a software license, the output may not be noticed for years and could very well be the cause of severe hardship for lots of people. My opinion regarding some new patch in the kernel might be useful to the developers, if I can present some logical basis for my opinion or some real-world experience to back up that opinion. My opinion regarding whether or not the word "convey" needs to be in GPLv3 is of no importance to anyone, because I don't have a clue about the legal jurisdictions in which it holds significance. The effect of "return 1;" is not something that will change if you compile the kernel in the U.S. one day and Libya the next. Anyone might demonstrate the effects of changing such lines of code. The effects of using "convey" versus "propagate" versus "copy" are not so easily and universally demonstrated. Anyone can suggest an intended or hoped-for effect, but how to achieve that effect in a license is not something one can determine by reading a man page or some source code.
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Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 Posted Jan 28, 2007 0:22 UTC (Sun) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] Law is not C code. I can fiddle around with the kernel, determine the value of the output within the time it takes to compile and boot, and nobody will get sued as a result. If I fiddle around with a software license, the output may not be noticed for years and could very well be the cause of severe hardship for lots of people. Exactly the same could somebody who is a lawyer say about writing a kernel. Yes, both are complex, specialized endeavors. Yes, in both cases specialists most have the last word. But in both cases the end result will have to be agreeable to its users, be it software users or developers releasing code. If either group isn't happy, the code or the license will be moot. And I fear GPLv3 will be a complete non-starter, when it could have been a step forward.
Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 Posted Jan 28, 2007 1:23 UTC (Sun) by b3timmons (guest, #40286) [Link] Exactly the same could somebody who is a lawyer say about writing a kernel. Yes, both are complex, specialized endeavors. Yes, in both cases specialists most have the last word. But in both cases the end result will have to be agreeable to its users, be it software users or developers releasing code. If either group isn't happy, the code or the license will be moot. And I fear GPLv3 will be a complete non-starter, when it could have been a step forward. Users and developers have had opportunities over and over again to join the process and make their voices heard, so no one has any excuse to complain about lack of opportunity to participate. Torvalds refused to participate because of his admitted dislike of committees. Should some special allowance have been made for him and the kernel guys? Do you realize how unfair that would look to other projects, several of which did participate in the process? Most GPLed software is licensed v2+, so I see no basis at all for your fear that v3 is a non-starter. You comment as if the kernel guys were somehow representative of GPL users in general, which is silly given how nearly all projects have nothing to do with Tivoization. Even the kernel guys are not as against v3 as you might think, with about 30% of the code currently licensed v2+.
Possible routes to kernel on GPLv3 Posted Jan 28, 2007 14:09 UTC (Sun) by grouch (guest, #27289) [Link]
Lawyers must be a different kind of animal where you live. If you ever get a lawyer who says he or she can quickly and precisely determine the effects of changing a few words in a legal document, run away! You can do such changes with software code and the results will be apparent when anyone, anywhere, properly compiles and tests that code. Judges, lawyers, courts and legislatures do not perform the same function as a compiler. The process used for drafting GPLv3 is unprecedented. I can find no instance of any other software license ever being created by soliciting feedback from the world.
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