Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com) [LWN.net]

Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com)

Posted Jan 31, 2003 14:31 UTC (Fri) by tsg (guest, #4745) [Link]

This is the same thing provided by VNC and PCAnywhere to users in the M$ domain.

It would be very useful if you were on a help desk and people kept calling you with "I click the button and it doesn't work." Now you can actually see what happens when they click the button. You might then use ssh to access their machine to fix the problem. You could also show them how to fix the problem remotely since you also have control of their desktop.

Actually seeing what they see (or how they got into the mess in the first place) is important.

Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com)

Posted Jan 31, 2003 14:45 UTC (Fri) by reinout (guest, #9390) [Link]

Basically it's VNC. Kde just added a small program to start it up and to
arrange the connection. They didn't invent the wheel all over imho.

Reinout van Rees

Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com)

Posted Feb 2, 2003 15:31 UTC (Sun) by elektroschock (guest, #8277) [Link]

There is more in the line and many experiments are going on. Read KDe cvs digest.

Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com)

Posted Jan 31, 2003 19:27 UTC (Fri) by ctg (subscriber, #3459) [Link]

Your talking about "Network Transparancy". You can run an application on
any machine on the network, and have it display on your screen.

This is about "Desktop Sharing". The same desktop (i.e. set of
applications) can be seen on more than one screen at the same time.

So the user can say to the help desk "What button do I press here?" and
the support person can say "I'll show you.."

Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com)

Posted Jan 31, 2003 19:35 UTC (Fri) by MortFurd (guest, #9389) [Link]

Yes, I am talking about network transparency - and so was the article. Nothing was mentioned about seeing the same thing as the local user. "Desktop sharing" was not mentioned either directly or by implication. The functions as described are the same old X functions that have existed for forever and a day under Unix, and the same old remote administration functions that have been there even longer.

Germany-funded Linux software arriving (News.com)

Posted Jan 31, 2003 23:55 UTC (Fri) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link]

X will let the user show their application on the admin's display or let the admin show an application on the user's display, but won't let the admin show the user's display on the admin's display, which is what is actually being done here. The X model is normally one keyboard, monitor, and mouse per display, and requires some special support to do more.

Microsoft Copycats

Posted Jan 31, 2003 14:31 UTC (Fri) by MortFurd (guest, #9389) [Link]

It also sems that someone has a bad case of Microsoftitis. There are other projects in existence that provide the same functionality as Outlook/Exchange. They don't, however, slavishly follow Microsoft's example as Kroupware does.
PHProjekt is a good example. It provides all that Outlook and Exchange do, but does it with an entirely different server/client model. Granted, PHProjekt has some small quirks, but wouldn't it be easier and more effective to straighten them out than to build an entirely new system?
PHProjekt runs as a server side application under Apache using PHP and an SQL database. It is portable to any server imaginable. The client is ANY webbrowser. Isn't open source about freedom? Kroupware is limited to (for the time being) Linux systems. PHProjekt can be deployed on any system you might want to name. Kroupware's scalability is limited to what ever its designers have chosen for components. PHProjekt scales easily - if the load is too much for your webserver, then add another one; if the SQL server can't handle the load, migrate the database from MySQL to PostgreSQL. PHProjekt scales from single user (I use it to manage my own projects) up to corporate level.

I am not pushing PHProjekt. I am deploring the tendency of the open source community to follow Microsoft's lead. KDE is doing it. The GPhoto (digicam software) folks are doing it. Microsoft emulation is every where - and it doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Microsoft Copycats

Posted Jan 31, 2003 17:37 UTC (Fri) by morhippo (subscriber, #334) [Link]

Kroupware is not at all similar to Outlook/Exchange, because unlkike Exchange,
you can use ANY standards compliant application. You just need IMAP and LDAP!
The server part should run on any UNIX.

PHProject can not be integrated into any programs I know. How do you type a
serial letter using PHProject? How do I add my addresses fro my mobile phone?

Microsoft Copycats

Posted Jan 31, 2003 19:30 UTC (Fri) by MortFurd (guest, #9389) [Link]

"Kroupware is not at all similar to Outlook/Exchange, because unlkike Exchange, you can use ANY standards compliant application. You just need IMAP and LDAP! The server part should run on any UNIX."
If all you need is LDAP and IMAP (which PHProjekt can make use of as well,) then why bother having a special name for it? If all you have is a client accessing standard servers, then what is holding up Kroupware? What are they spending so much time developing?
Kroupware is intended as an Outlook/Exchange lookalike/workalike - and that is what is taking so much time. Mimicing the existing user interface and implementing the run-wild featuritis of the Microsoft software - that's what is taking so long.

"PHProject can not be integrated into any programs I know. How do you type a serial letter using PHProject? How do I add my addresses from my mobile phone? "
The data in PHProjekt can be accessed by any SQL capable program. If you need to write a serial letter, and assuming you don't mean an e-mail (which PHProjekt can quite easily do,) then all you need is a program capable of accessing the SQL server. "Access" should be capable of it - though you probably meant that you want to be able to send mass mailings out of Word.
I don't know why you would want to "integrate PHProjekt" into another program. PHProjekt (and Outlook) are applications. If you need data from them, then got to the data source underneath - go to the server rather than the client. Outlook has that problem, and you are wanting to follow right along with it. You want to "borrow" components of one program to be used in another - which is really a bad idea considering that Outlook and PHProjekt are the user interfaces.
As for getting your addresses from your mobile phone into PHProjekt, you just do it the same way you were going to do it under Kroupware. If the telephone software was written properly, it would talk to the database rather than to an application and you wouldn't even be asking this question. The way to do it would be to write a java or java script applet that either reads the data from the database of the PC side telephone software. You could also write an applet that reads straight from the telephone, but you would need to know the protocol and I don't think that that is freely available from the telephone manufacturers. You might also create an applet that reads the data from the SIM card using a SIM card reader. That at least is standardized. Finally, you might try to convince the telephone manufacturers to make their software SQL or LDAP capable.

There are alternatives, but no one is looking for them. Everyone wants to have things like Microsoft has them, but with out the Microsoft part. You can't have your cake and eat it to.
Kroupware is a re-implementation of Outlook/Exchange, only it is based on open standards. That is certainly an improvement, but it still does things the way MS does them, and presents as far as possible an Outlook style user interface. Is it best? Is it good? Is there another way that might be better? No one knows or cares. They just want it to be just like Microsoft.

Microsoft Copycats

Posted Jan 31, 2003 19:51 UTC (Fri) by MortFurd (guest, #9389) [Link]

BTW:
Kroupware clients are limited to the current KDE client for Linux and Outlook with a proprietary plugin for Windows. More Linux clients may be forth coming, or maybe not. It depends on whether anyone out there wants to make the effort to link up to Kroupware. PHProjekt runs NOW on any computer capable of running a web server with PHP and access to an SQL server. It has clients NOW on every operating system used on the desktop - all you need is a browser with javascript.

RE: Microsoft Copycats

Posted Feb 1, 2003 17:35 UTC (Sat) by pointwood (guest, #2814) [Link]

You seem to forget completely that this is a project the German government have asked 3 companies to make. It's not something they do for free - these companies (which have a lot of well known open source developers employed) are getting payed to create this software.

RE: Microsoft Copycats

Posted Feb 2, 2003 15:29 UTC (Sun) by elektroschock (guest, #8277) [Link]

Bernhard Reiter (CEO of intevation) is a spokesperson of Free Software Foundation Europe. You should also remember Kalle Dallmeier and some other names.

this is a research project about email security with a positive side effect. The BSI also funded Windows software. Thje intention was not to fund KDe but to pay for basic research.

RE: Microsoft Copycats

Posted Feb 2, 2003 15:32 UTC (Sun) by elektroschock (guest, #8277) [Link]

Like Intevation, CEO is Berhard Reiter, spokesperson of Free Software foundation Europe!

Microsoft Copycats

Posted Feb 1, 2003 17:26 UTC (Sat) by pointwood (guest, #2814) [Link]

Could it be possible that *maybe* a web-application isn't always the best solution?!

Furthermore, have you read the project homepage at all? They are certainly not building this from scratch. Here is a direct copy from their FAQ:

"The server component is called Kolab and is based on already mature Free Software components like Postfix and Cyrus IMAPD. Check the latest architecture document available from kolab.kde.org for the details.

The KDE client side will be based on enhanced versions of KMail, KOrganizer and other KDE components."

As to your comment about it taking a long time - are you aware of when they started this project? They started early september last year or something like that. Is that really a long time?

Do they copy MS? Yes and so what? I don't see anything wrong in copying something that works well for many people. Besides, this is all free software (GPL'ed), so feel free to fork the project and build your own version with a different interface - choice is good!