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Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft dealNovell's IRC session on the Microsoft dealPosted Nov 28, 2006 7:59 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252)In reply to: Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal by Arker Parent article: Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal
Kernel modules are in gray area. If they are not distributed with the kernel! If you distribute anything with the kernel - you better use GPLed source or you can use "mere aggregation" clause from the GPL ("mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License"). There are no other choice. Kernel authors unambiguously said: "user programs that use kernel services by normal system calls" are not affected. But kernel modules (and even programs like udev which use more intimate access to kernel then "normal system calls") - they are affected. Yes, there are small possibility that you can twist the GPL (given pretty damn good lawyer) enough to make the Ubuntu somehow look non-infringing. But if Novell is getting such a severe beating for it's use of GPL loophole then why Ubuntu (who also uses loophole - even if different one) must be accepted ? It's hypocrisy...
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Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 28, 2006 9:53 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] What `more intimate access' does udev use? netlink sockets use the socket API: normal system calls. inotify is a normal system call. Digging through /sys uses open()/read()/close(), normal system calls.
Sorry, I don't think that merely *reading /sys* binds you by the requirements of the GPL (if it does, then reading /proc does too, and I can think of a good few proprietary apps that do that, and nobody complains.)
Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 28, 2006 11:47 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Sorry, I don't think that merely *reading /sys* binds you by the requirements of the GPL (if it does, then reading /proc does too, and I can think of a good few proprietary apps that do that, and nobody complains.) /proc and /sys are quite different: /proc is decoupled from kernel internals, /sys is 1-to-1 mapping for kernel structures. Yuo can as well claim that your program is not bound by GPL if it uses just /dev/kmem to change the kernel and install 10Mb of code there: you are just using open()/read()/close(), right ?
Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 28, 2006 23:58 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] This is where the law leaves me behind, I'm afraid. If using syscallsalone is considered not to impose tight enough coupling to contaminate with the GPL, I can't see how using syscalls alone to read a particular filesystem can be considered tight enough either.
(But then this is all completely academic for me anyway as everything I've
Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 28, 2006 11:29 UTC (Tue) by AlexHudson (subscriber, #41828) [Link] It's not that grey an area. If you don't infringe the license yourself, but basically set it up so that the end user running the software infringes it, you're still liable - it's contributory infringment.
For something to be CI, you generally have to prove 1) knowledge of the infringing activity and 2) that a material contribution was made [i.e., assistance].
Canonical must be aware that shipping the drivers built in is infringing, otherwise they would do it that way. They've also set it up so that users machine's automatically combine the material in an infringing way. Those two facts satisfy 1. and 2. above, to my mind.
Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 28, 2006 11:50 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Running the software can not infringe: GPL explicitly states that you can run anything you want as long as you are not distributing "the program"...
Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 28, 2006 11:58 UTC (Tue) by AlexHudson (subscriber, #41828) [Link] You're missing the point; I'm not talking about the end-user infringing, therefore their running the software is irrelevant.
Novell's IRC session on the Microsoft deal Posted Nov 29, 2006 2:49 UTC (Wed) by Arker (guest, #14205) [Link] But they are distributed with the kernel. And being derivative works, they clearly don't fall into the 'mere aggregation' category.
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