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Fedora board meeting minutesFedora board meeting minutesPosted Nov 20, 2006 23:05 UTC (Mon) by mitchskin (subscriber, #32405)Parent article: Fedora board meeting minutes
<warren> GPL java and community replacement is still highly theoretical at this point.I find this statement odd. I was often confused about Sun's direction when McNealy was CEO, but with Schwartz they've been pretty clear about GPL Java. It's already started, even! Why are people so skeptical about this? I can imagine people being worried about scheduling; like not wanting to commit to Fedora 7 using Sun Java in case Sun takes longer than expected to finish opening the libraries. In this context, though, the question is long-term replacement of Mono apps, which isn't particularly schedule-sensitive.
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Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 20, 2006 23:21 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] You probably are missing context. Its not about skepticism. The full code drop with the ability to build JVM's out of completely GPL'ed code is stated to happen sometime before March 2007. Currently there are bunch of missing pieces. The inclusion of Sun Java in Fedora is out of question for the next release and hence porting Mono apps over to Java is not feasible within that time frame. Longer term there are probably other alternatives.
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 21, 2006 0:08 UTC (Tue) by wtogami (subscriber, #32325) [Link] March 2007 is the release date, and even then it will be missing pieces making it not immediately usable for Fedora, like parts needed for PPC.
Another question is what happens to upstream GNOME. Will GNOME integrate Mono components as a deep and irremovable part of the standard desktop? Will GNOME try to promote a truly and unquestionably (post-March 2007) liberty GNOME-Java platform?
Yes, Sun made the right choice for the community in choosing GPL, but this is not a magic bullet that will solve all problems immediately.
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 21, 2006 3:37 UTC (Tue) by pflugstad (subscriber, #224) [Link] March 2007 is the release date, and even then it will be missing pieces making it not immediately usable for Fedora, like parts needed for PPC.Do you mean that they won't release the JVM implementation for PowerPC? Or what? I would expect most of what's coming out will be platform independent. Thanks. Any references?
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 21, 2006 15:08 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
The current Sun JVM does not work on the PPC architecture.
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 21, 2006 21:43 UTC (Tue) by pflugstad (subscriber, #224) [Link] I was thinking the gp had seen something else.
The Sun JVM is already x86 & SPARC portable. And IBM (and Apple) have one on PowerPC, which I've heard is just Sun's Java + patches.
In any case, I would expect that once the whole thing is GPL'd that it'll be made to work on PowerPC pretty quickly - probably by IBM.
Pete
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 21, 2006 7:10 UTC (Tue) by thebluesgnr (guest, #37963) [Link] Will GNOME integrate Mono components as a deep and irremovable part of the standard desktop? Not likely, since a huge part of the GNOME community is against that idea. Will GNOME try to promote a truly and unquestionably (post-March 2007) liberty GNOME-Java platform? Promote in what way? GNOME has been shipping Java bindings for a while and yet Python, Mono and C++ are still more popular than Java (talking about GNOME apps here). The only effective way to promote a language within the GNOME community is, IMO, to write great applications that use the GNOME platform with that language. This is what Novell's been doing for a while with Mono, and in a way Red Hat with Python. Not even Sun is using the Java bindings at the moment.
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 21, 2006 16:27 UTC (Tue) by phgrenet (guest, #5979) [Link] Eclipse is a great application using the Gnome platform, using SWT. Granted it is not fully integrated in Gnome, because it just links to some gnome libs.Here is an idea: now that Sun's JVM is GPLed, why not integrating it within the Gnome desktop. This would lead to much better integration of applications and better performance (the same JVM can run any number of Java-based application).
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 23, 2006 1:22 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] Well that would be nice.
but right now there isn't much point in getting rid of Mono or replacing mono with anything.
With Mono and software patents it's all just paranoia right now. In my eyes it's not any worse then any other part of Linux that was made a replacement for propriatory software (which is most of it)
Personally I think that Java has a bright future though. But the way things are looking it may not be until 2008 before GPL'd java becomes a real-world full-fledged language replacement for current JVM stuff.
Probably what would be nice is if somebody knowledgable in both C# and Java would write up a technical comparision between the languages..
Relatively security, performance, ease of programming, integration with existing C and C++ code and such things.
Fedora board meeting minutes Posted Nov 23, 2006 1:30 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] And just a for-isntance.. Alright you have Java for GTK and such.. but how is java with it's integration into gconf, or gstreamer, or other such things that are standard in Gnome? I know that all those aren't complete but will be required to make Java a full-fledged language for Gnome.
What I think would be cool would be for Java to get together with KDE. KDE doesn't have the same thing aviable for it as you have with Python and Mono for Gnome, but they probably need it.
For instance C++ and how KDE works is very object oriented fasion. Well that is nice for Java.
QT folks are interested getting KDE working on every platform aviable, and Java is already there for most of their targets.
QT and Java on the Linux desktop. QT and Java on mobile devices. All sorts of stuff like that. Seems like a good match.
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