Fedora Core 6 review (Software In Review) [LWN.net]

Fedora Core 6 review (Software In Review)

Posted Nov 8, 2006 22:23 UTC (Wed) by russell (subscriber, #10458)
Parent article: Fedora Core 6 review (Software In Review)

Now that some of my family are using FC, since that's what I've been using. I'm starting to realise how unfriendly the distro really is. For instance, it's nice to have the updates appear on the desktop and be easily installed, BUT, because of the lack of driver support, if a kernel update is in the mix, it breaks everything. Was not a problem for me, but now I'm spending a lot more time fixing everyones problems. For example (just one), consider how long the IPW3945 driver has been around and how much hardware is out in the real world. The answer is a long time and a lot of hardware. And it's not uncommon for the FC kernel source API to break the compilation of ipw3945.

How hard would it be to add some of these out of tree drivers to extras?

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Use exclude

Posted Nov 8, 2006 22:36 UTC (Wed) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]

On some machines that I have proprietary drivers installed on, I exclude the kernel (and xorg as well on some) updates (add "exclude=kernel*" to /etc/yum.conf). Just add an exclude and then you don't have to worry about a kernel upgrade breaking stuff.

I don't recommend proprietary hardware... but when you are stuck with it... what can you do?

I don't recommend you exclude the kernel forever... especially if there is a big security fix in a newer kernel... but delaying it until you are ready to do it... or skipping a few kernels upgrades that weren't of much value to you... doesn't hurt.

Your comments reminded me of when Windows users tell me how hard Linux is to use... and how easy Windows is to use. Anything is easy once one learns HOW to use it. Most folks who think Windows is easy to use somehow have forgotten that period of time where they didn't know how to use Windows... and the frustrations they went through to learn it. Take some time to learn Linux and you'll see just how easy it is to use too. :) That last sentence isn't addressed at the author of the comment but non-Linux users in general.

Use exclude

Posted Nov 9, 2006 14:51 UTC (Thu) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link]

Very true. Get one of those person who says Windows is easier than Linux, give him a Windows install CD, and tell him to get his system up and running (and up to date) and see who finishes first.

Bonus point if the system has an unsupported SATA controller and no floppy drive.

Use exclude

Posted Nov 9, 2006 16:19 UTC (Thu) by NRArnot (subscriber, #3033) [Link]

Even better, give your Windows user a hard disk extracted from a PC that was happily running Windows XP before its motherboard broke down (say an old AMD Athlon), and a new PC (say an Intel Core Duo 2), and tell him to get back to where he was before the breakdown.

He'll need good tech skills to sort out HAL. And good people skills to avoid paying Microsoft for another copy of Windows. (If it was an OEM copy originally, he *will* have to pay for another copy of Windows!). Point out to him that while he's on hold listening to muzak, he's paying a premium rate and Microsoft is getting half of it, which is why they aren't in any sort of hurry to eventually let him talk to someone in Bombay with an imperfect grasp of English.

It's even less fun with a Windows server.

Then show him the same job with Linux. I've done this several times. Yank the disk, install it in a new PC, boot, usually that's it. 10 minute job. Even if by some chance it won't boot (hardware too new for old kernel?) , userdata is safe in separate /home partition (and system config safe in /etc for inspection and re-use as appropriate). You can get quick access to your data with the latest Knoppix CD or go find an older new PC, it won't have scrambled your disk.

Heck, that Knoppix disk should have been the first thing that your Windows user reached for!

If he needs further convincing get him to make McAfee anti-virus start working again after it auto-updated itself into non-functionality. I spent most of yesterday sorting that one out on about 30 PCs. sadly I'm not in an all-Linux environment.

Fedora Core 6 review (Software In Review)

Posted Nov 8, 2006 22:39 UTC (Wed) by davej (guest, #354) [Link]

When they're encumbered by binary only blobs, or licenses that prevent redistribution, very hard.

ipw3945 is eventually going to get better, but it's a few months off from getting solved.

Fedora Core 6 review (Software In Review)

Posted Nov 8, 2006 22:49 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> How hard would it be to add some of these out of tree drivers to extras?

I think this is probably waiting for inclusion in vanilla kernel. You can ask on Fedora Devel list.

This LKML thread has a bit more info on the current status of the driver:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-netdev&m=116223...

In the meantime, see if this helps (I don't use wireless, so I didn't test this):

http://atrpms.net/dist/fc6/ipw3945/

Fedora Core 6 review (Software In Review)

Posted Nov 9, 2006 14:49 UTC (Thu) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link]

For binary drivers in general, if you get it from a third-party repo, you normally have to hold off your kernel upgrade only for a couple of days, until they have a corresponding version.

For ipw3945 in particular, there are repos out there that uses dkms to package it, so when you boot a new kernel it will automatically recompile the driver's kernel interface for that. Not giving any direct link, but searching for dkms-ipw3945 might help.