GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom [LWN.net]

GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom

Posted Oct 26, 2006 1:50 UTC (Thu) by bignose (subscriber, #40)
In reply to: GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom by bojan
Parent article: Linux: GPLv3, DRM, and Exceptions (KernelTrap.org)

> GPLv3 requires that keys be distributed with software

Or that no keys be required at all.

> device manufacturers, content and service providers find locked devices useful, therefore they will keep manufactuing them

The "therefore" is true only to the extent that it continues to be profitable to do so. DRM is gaining widespread dissatisfaction as its ramifications become known. I find the idea that such devices are inevitably going to become ubiquitous to be a very defeatist position.

> device manufacturers find free software option useful, as it reduces the cost of manufacturing the device

This is completely at odds with restricting the freedoms of the recipient. If you mean "device manufacturers find zero-cost software [...] useful", that's irrelevant here.

> therefore, not many are going to get a chance to exercise GPLv3 freedoms on any of those devices

That's true under *any* free software license. The devices you describe are explicitly designed to restrict the freedoms of the recipient, so that they cannot exercise the freedom to modify and run the software.

Since such distribution doesn't allow exercise of the freedoms in the GPL, the GPLv3 is being designed so that those who would distribute in that way can't pretend to offer those freedoms.

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GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom

Posted Oct 26, 2006 2:20 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> The "therefore" is true only to the extent that it continues to be profitable to do so.

Oh, you better believe that part. Content and service providers are making sure that's the case. Why do you think we have DMCA?

> DRM is gaining widespread dissatisfaction as its ramifications become known.

Widespread? Wouldn't be so sure about that. What seems widespread on LWN, may not be even known in the real world. I reckon upward of 90% of Tivo users neither know nor would care if they found out that their system has DRM enabled hardware. And I think I'm being generous to the people that know and care here.

> This is completely at odds with restricting the freedoms of the recipient. If you mean "device manufacturers find zero-cost software [...] useful", that's irrelevant here.

No, I mean free software. Especially copyleft free software, as they can enjoy the benefits of sharing the development cost with other companies (i.e. other members of the community). Or are we saying now the GPLv2 software is not copyleft free software, because GPLv2 is violating the spirit of GPL (the mind boggles :-)? I certainly hope not.

> That's true under *any* free software license. The devices you describe are explicitly designed to restrict the freedoms of the recipient, so that they cannot exercise the freedom to modify and run the software.

My point exactly. So, the devices are the problem here - and one that GPLv3 isn't going to solve. At least with GPLv2 you get to have developers that keep hacking the software (therefore making it relevant) and let other people have access to such source (to run on other devices). With GPLv3, however, those communities die and the software soon becomes irrelevant in that area.

Which gives? Less free software, not more. Surely, less free software is not better than more free software. Except, of course, if GPLv2 software doesn't count as free software any more.

GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom

Posted Oct 26, 2006 2:35 UTC (Thu) by bignose (subscriber, #40) [Link]

> > The devices you describe are explicitly designed to restrict the freedoms of the recipient, so that they cannot exercise the freedom to modify and run the software.

> My point exactly. So, the devices are the problem here - and one that GPLv3 isn't going to solve.

No copyright license can solve that problem, and the GPLv3 isn't designed to do so.

The problem GPLv3 is addressing, in this case, is the unwilling contribution by free software developers to explicitly non-free distribution.

GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom

Posted Oct 26, 2006 2:44 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> The problem GPLv3 is addressing, in this case, is the unwilling contribution by free software developers to explicitly non-free distribution.

A noble goal, for sure (I'm not being sarcastic here, I promise).

However, in the case of Linux (or other similar software) this would have a side effect of killing the development efforts of many of those developers. So, instead of just killing "non-free distribution", communities and a lot of contributions useful elsewhere would be killed with it as well. All of which is just collateral damage to FSF, I guess.

GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom

Posted Oct 26, 2006 2:54 UTC (Thu) by bignose (subscriber, #40) [Link]

> this would have a side effect of killing the development efforts of many of those developers. So, instead of just killing "non-free distribution", communities and a lot of contributions useful elsewhere would be killed with it as well.

I guess our crystal balls must be tuned to different futures. I plan to keep working toward the future I see in mine.

Thanks for the discussion, I'm stopping here.

GPLv3 is designed to ensure the software user's freedom

Posted Oct 26, 2006 3:00 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> Thanks for the discussion, I'm stopping here.

Thanks for your time. I enjoyed the discussion.