Freedoms granted by the GPLvX [LWN.net]

Freedoms granted by the GPLvX

Posted Oct 19, 2006 17:38 UTC (Thu) by Arker (guest, #14205)
In reply to: Freedoms granted by the GPLvX by masuel
Parent article: FSF should separate GPLv3 changes (Linux.com)

I was referring to the other developers of GPLv2 code.

Then I don't see what point you were making earlier, at all. What, they were supposed to forbid folks like Linus from using the GPL? How? Why? You're just not making any sense to me.

from Section "1. Source Code"[...]

Sorry, still not following your argument here.

After some pondering, I *think* the key may have been in an earlier post though.

Not just parts covered by the licence.

The license covers the terms under which permission to take actions otherwise forbidden by copyright law are forbidden. I think you're looking at it as "the license covers software, not hardware, but then it's trying to dictate something hardware related." But this is irrellevant. The license extends permission to do things otherwise forbidden by law, as long as the conditions of the license are met. Those conditions could be just about anything. In the case of the GPL, the idea is that if you want a license, you have to pass on all rights you received to those downstream of you. In a particular case that might limit your choices on hardware... so what? It's legally permissable and ethically required.

Also sticking to my embedded point, as a general rule every device that is connected to any kind of network is up-datable.

They'd better be, if they're directly connected. Which is exactly why you shouldn't have bricks directly connecting to public networks.

These updates are normally validated in some way and its not these devices that are changing...

There's no problem whatsoever with validating them, as long as the owner of the device has a way to control that validation process. The devices do change - every update changes them. They're general purpose computers outfitted with specialised software - not bricks.

Ever play rogue on a Cisco router?

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Freedoms granted by the GPLvX

Posted Oct 20, 2006 1:10 UTC (Fri) by masuel (guest, #28661) [Link]

> What, they were supposed to forbid folks like Linus from using the GPL?
> How? Why? You're just not making any sense to me.

Some developers use the GPLv2 to ensure that other developers using there
code give the changes back to them.

The FSF uses the GPLvX to ensure the users freedom, ie that the user can
become a developer.

The changes from v2 -> v3 draft 2 make the distinction much clearer (or
actually important) hence some are saying they want to stay with v2.

Hope that helps a bit.

> In the case of the GPL, the idea is that if you want a license, you
> have to pass on all rights you received to those downstream of you. In
> a particular case that might limit your choices on hardware... so what?
> It's legally permissible and ethically required.

This is a good couple of sentences :)

The new bit is the limit on the overall "system/hardware"... it wasn't
present on the previous version of the licence.

Hence the discussion and quesion about the licence being "in the same
spirit" as v2... If you are the FSF its a no brain-er, but
for other people it may give pause for thought. No?

> Ever play rogue on a Cisco router?

... no sorry ... but I have taken features written for a platform I have
never seen and added to the box in-front of me, You must have done that
too :-)

The developers clearly benefit from the availability of the code without
the associated platform.

The FSF point of view that is not enough, some people say it is.

I hope you recognise it is worthy of debate even if your point of view is
that "enforcing code sharing" alone is naive/wrong.

ps I actually haven't made up my mind yet...

Freedoms granted by the GPLvX

Posted Oct 20, 2006 3:20 UTC (Fri) by Arker (guest, #14205) [Link]

Hope that helps a bit.

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying, but I don't see what it has to do with the earlier allegation of 'selective blindness' however. I suspect that those, Linus for instance, that have a real problem with the spirit of the GPL had ample warning and opportunity to omit the 'or later versions' clause, which was explicitly left out of the license itself to permit that, in fact.

I hope you recognise it is worthy of debate even if your point of view is that "enforcing code sharing" alone is naive/wrong.

I can see a worthy debate on some issues here, but not on whether or not v3 is in the same spirit. That question seems absolutely beyond question.

Freedoms granted by the GPLvX

Posted Oct 20, 2006 6:41 UTC (Fri) by masuel (guest, #28661) [Link]

> ... I don't see what it has to do with the earlier allegation
> of 'selective blindness'.

sorry for the confusion

As we have agreed the FSF view the GPL is about users freedom and some
developers view it as about enforcing sharing.

If the second party are not aware of the first parties intentions or
assume they are the same as there own then the "clarification" in the new
version could come as a bit of a shock. It is this mistake on the
*developers* part that I was classing as "selective blindness", the FSF
are far from blind...

It could, therefor, I feel be argued that "in spirit" is only true of the
FSF.

By changing the licence, any developers just meant "tit-for-tat sharing"
on there code but included the "...or later version" cause risk having
there code taken and extended under a licence that, from there point of
view, not in the same spirit.

Does this make sense?

(I know the bsd lot must be use to the feeling but its a new one to GPL
people...)