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Tivo sucks

Posted Oct 2, 2006 21:41 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091)
In reply to: FSF is making the Tivo situation worse by mingo
Parent article: Busy busy busybox

Ingo, do not let those Hollywood arguments drive you. Just imagine that the Tivo player, apart from recording movies and replaying them, has an attached printer and you want to print a screen capture. Or a program listing, whatever. Then you discover that the printer is not working for you, since the driver is broken. Then you, who are an excellent kernel programmer and knows that the thing runs Linux, want to repair the driver. Then you find out about the TPM and how it won't let you upgrade the device you legally bought, because the guys who took your money are treating you like a thief. Then... déja vu.

And if the Tivo case is completely inapposite [...]

My goodness, inapposite is a word! Anyway, I would gladly leave that bastard market to Microsoft. It would save Linux from the creepy associations that DRM brings, and would be one more reason to see DRM crumble. But then it's not my code in there.

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Tivo sucks

Posted Oct 3, 2006 15:46 UTC (Tue) by southey (subscriber, #9466) [Link]

I don't see your point. What I understand, as I don't have Tivo, is that they provide the source code so you can fix your issues. So it is incorrect to say that it won't let you upgrade the device you legally bought.

The real issue for you is that you still want to run Tivo when you have modifed your Tivo system. However, Tivo is the combined package of hardware, software and content, so you can not have one without the others. Also, you are not clear on what you actually brought and under what terms when getting a Tivo system. By modifying your software and/or hardware you have appeared to violated the terms of sale and/or contract with Tivo in that you can use the hardware and software just not with Tivo. If MythTV and other similar software got easy to install and competitive then current Tivo situation probably would become disappear.

In your argument you seem to be forgetting the rights of the people that are involved. If Tivo did not use TPM it would have to find some other method of control to protect the rights of itself and the content providers. The real answer is not DRM or GPLv3 but working with the likes of Tivo and other content providers to protect everyone's rights.

Tivo sucks

Posted Oct 3, 2006 23:27 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

What I understand, as I don't have Tivo, is that they provide the source code so you can fix your issues.

Except that you can't. You can't run modified software so source code is useless.

In your argument you seem to be forgetting the rights of the people that are involved.

I forget them for a reason. Imagine that I tell you that the U.S. Constitution must "balance" the rights of the people and those of the Government: you would probably laugh at me. The government doesn't need rights, since it has the power. Or suppose we are talking about slavery and I tell you that we need to "balance" the rights of the slave with those of the master. The imbalance is so strong to begin with that it is ludicrous.

The right to copy (or copyright) was called that way because it expressed the rights of the author to be paid by a publisher. Here the powerful party was the publisher; no rights of his were "balanced" against those of the author. Now the "author" has become so powerful that you, the reader, have nothing to bargain with -- except your money, and money can hardly be called "a right". There is no way I can balance e.g. my rights of fair use with anything else; the publisher just locks the work of art and I'm screwed. Yes, Tivo can "balance" their contract with content providers, but I'm left out of the loop: I lose every time. The "rights" in "Digital Rights Management" are farcical. So I prefer to forget them to avoid cronic depression.

Tivo sucks

Posted Oct 20, 2006 10:52 UTC (Fri) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link]

I know this is an old thread, but...

The answer is: Don't buy the Tivo! You keep using an argument
of, "Imagine if *your* Tivo...." If that was an issue for me, I would
simply not buy the Tivo! Vote with your wallet and give your money to
those that make better (and perhaps more open) products.

Imagine a situation where Linux went GPLv3. Can you force Tivo to start
using Linux/GPLv3? Or will they A) continue using Linux/GPLv2, or B)
switch to something not licensed under GPLvx, perhaps even a BSD?

I read a comment earlier that basically said, "I think we're important
enough now that we should flex our muscle." That strikes me as a bit
arrogant. Those that feel this way about GPL-ed software may be in for a
surprise when they find out that these device manufacturers they're
trying to coerce don't really care about Free Software at all; they're
interested in practicality, much like the kernel devs, and will quickly
ignore any GPLv3 software, and even switch to proprietary software. Then
what have you accomplished? Well, "your" Tivo will be no more hackable
than it is now, and probably less so. Free Software will become less
relevant in these industries (which I'm not sure matters anyway; again,
vote with your wallet). Microsoft will probably be happy and you might
even see some "Powered by Windows Vista technology" stickers on "your"
Tivo.

Linux and Free Software are getting some pull in enterprise systems, it
seems, but I think some people overestimate their value in these kinds of
embedded systems.