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FSF is making the Tivo situation worseFSF is making the Tivo situation worsePosted Oct 2, 2006 21:05 UTC (Mon) by mingo (subscriber, #31122)In reply to: FSF is trying to solve our coming problems by man_ls Parent article: Busy busy busybox
GPLv2 was not about forking, gainful employment or development at all; it was about replacing the darn printer driver in the 90's. The printer driver situation was materially different from the Tivo situation. The printer driver was closed-source and he could not get the source code to fix obvious bugs in it. Today most of the printers have free drivers. Why? Not because the printing industry symphatises with RMS's desire to hack his printer driver, but because they saw an economic necessity to serve a growing market. (Linux servers and Linux desktops) In other words: the printing industry reacted to people's desire to run Linux, and to use their printers under Linux. Please remember: the key to having open printer drivers was people wanting Linux. But the Tivo situation is completely different. The Tivo was DRM-ed because it plays content from an industry that required its copyrighted works to be protected. There were people (besides honest tweakers) who were "hacking" not to fix bugs in the Tivo but to avoid having to pay for "pay per view" content. So replying to content industry pressure Tivo closed it down more than they have originally done (being an appliance, they never anticipated it being modifiable), and added this crypto based virtual-ROM technology that restricts the hardware to run only certain kernels that match a given hash. As far as the user is concerned it behaves like old-fashioned ROM, in practice it is not modifiable. (but the manufacturer can come and can flip in an upgraded ROM - just like with old-fashioned ROMs) If Tivo couldnt use Linux they'd be using LynxWorks or some other embedded OS, because people are not interested in the Linux in the Tivo, people are interested in Tivo's userspace app and in the content the Tivo is offering. Please think about it. By trying to go "eye for eye" with Tivo we only hurt Linux and help Hollywood's monopolization efforts, because one more small player would exit their market - and that small player does it all voluntarily, via a licensing change. We'd also further isolate Linux from a market that people are interested in. Whoah, Microsoft's dreams come true! So what we are doing via the anti-Tivo language is that we hurt Linux and help Hollywood. It will not result in free Tivos. It results in no DVD playing hardware or software being associated with Linux at all! The reason again: people are not interested in the Linux aspect of these players. And if the Tivo case is completely inapposite, if it achieves precisely the opposite effect, then why is the GPL trying to "address" it? Why are we doing all that anti-DRM stuff in the license to begin with, if it only hurts the little guy and helps big corp, even for the case that was singled out by RMS himself: Tivo?
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Tivo sucks Posted Oct 2, 2006 21:41 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] Ingo, do not let those Hollywood arguments drive you. Just imagine that the Tivo player, apart from recording movies and replaying them, has an attached printer and you want to print a screen capture. Or a program listing, whatever. Then you discover that the printer is not working for you, since the driver is broken. Then you, who are an excellent kernel programmer and knows that the thing runs Linux, want to repair the driver. Then you find out about the TPM and how it won't let you upgrade the device you legally bought, because the guys who took your money are treating you like a thief. Then... déja vu.And if the Tivo case is completely inapposite [...]My goodness, inapposite is a word! Anyway, I would gladly leave that bastard market to Microsoft. It would save Linux from the creepy associations that DRM brings, and would be one more reason to see DRM crumble. But then it's not my code in there.
Tivo sucks Posted Oct 3, 2006 15:46 UTC (Tue) by southey (subscriber, #9466) [Link] I don't see your point. What I understand, as I don't have Tivo, is that they provide the source code so you can fix your issues. So it is incorrect to say that it won't let you upgrade the device you legally bought.The real issue for you is that you still want to run Tivo when you have modifed your Tivo system. However, Tivo is the combined package of hardware, software and content, so you can not have one without the others. Also, you are not clear on what you actually brought and under what terms when getting a Tivo system. By modifying your software and/or hardware you have appeared to violated the terms of sale and/or contract with Tivo in that you can use the hardware and software just not with Tivo. If MythTV and other similar software got easy to install and competitive then current Tivo situation probably would become disappear. In your argument you seem to be forgetting the rights of the people that are involved. If Tivo did not use TPM it would have to find some other method of control to protect the rights of itself and the content providers. The real answer is not DRM or GPLv3 but working with the likes of Tivo and other content providers to protect everyone's rights.
Tivo sucks Posted Oct 3, 2006 23:27 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] What I understand, as I don't have Tivo, is that they provide the source code so you can fix your issues.Except that you can't. You can't run modified software so source code is useless. In your argument you seem to be forgetting the rights of the people that are involved.I forget them for a reason. Imagine that I tell you that the U.S. Constitution must "balance" the rights of the people and those of the Government: you would probably laugh at me. The government doesn't need rights, since it has the power. Or suppose we are talking about slavery and I tell you that we need to "balance" the rights of the slave with those of the master. The imbalance is so strong to begin with that it is ludicrous. The right to copy (or copyright) was called that way because it expressed the rights of the author to be paid by a publisher. Here the powerful party was the publisher; no rights of his were "balanced" against those of the author. Now the "author" has become so powerful that you, the reader, have nothing to bargain with -- except your money, and money can hardly be called "a right". There is no way I can balance e.g. my rights of fair use with anything else; the publisher just locks the work of art and I'm screwed. Yes, Tivo can "balance" their contract with content providers, but I'm left out of the loop: I lose every time. The "rights" in "Digital Rights Management" are farcical. So I prefer to forget them to avoid cronic depression.
Tivo sucks Posted Oct 20, 2006 10:52 UTC (Fri) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link] I know this is an old thread, but...
The answer is: Don't buy the Tivo! You keep using an argument
Imagine a situation where Linux went GPLv3. Can you force Tivo to start
I read a comment earlier that basically said, "I think we're important
Linux and Free Software are getting some pull in enterprise systems, it
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