Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux) [LWN.net]

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 30, 2006 15:08 UTC (Wed) by horen (subscriber, #2514) [Link]

I can't comment on Gentoo, having never seen it, much less worked with it, but I'm not at all surprised by Ubuntu's ranking. Again, I'm not (yet) a Ubuntu user, having been "wed" to RedHat since 1996 (v4.?) and currently on Fedora Core 5. Still, I will be moving to Ubuntu in the near future, for one reason: the ability to minimize "distribution bloat".

It's not that my workstation or laptops are resource-challenged (neither disk space nor RAM); rather, I'm tired of having programs and snippets of this GUI, or that GUI -- Gnome or KDE -- being installed, despite my deselecting either of those desktop managers.

I suspect that I'm not the only user who feels that s/he's lost control of what's sitting on their root partition.

Although I am in the process of installing DSL (Damn Small Linux) on my Compaq LTE Elite 4/75cx, I want a more mainstream distribution on my other hosts. This leads me to what one poster recently wrote on the DSL Users' Forum, the gist of which is: grab and install Ubuntu's "alternate" image, tweak /etc/apt/sources.list, then proceed to create a barebones installation; from there, continue using apt-get to install/remove what you want/don't want.

It might be possible to get there with a "server" installation from one or more Linux distributions, but until I read about doing so (or do so, myself), I think I'll go with the Ubuntu "alternate" solution.

Of special interest was that from the various Ubuntu releases, it was Ubuntu "vanilla" which came-out ahead of Kubuntu and Xubuntu. Thankfully, their "alternate" version will allow me to forego Gnome.

:-)

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 30, 2006 17:16 UTC (Wed) by vmole (subscriber, #111) [Link]

Why not start with Debian and just install what you want? No alternate sources required.

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Sep 1, 2006 0:22 UTC (Fri) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link]

Well, most of the "snippet of this, and snippet of that" is because those snippets are required by what you have installed...

Two words: Web survey

Posted Aug 30, 2006 19:26 UTC (Wed) by s_cargo (guest, #10473) [Link]

I hear that Caldera got the top spot in SCO's survey. :^)

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 30, 2006 19:04 UTC (Wed) by a9db0 (subscriber, #2181) [Link]

I can understand both the Ubuntu and the Gentoo rankings.

I use Kubuntu on my laptop and primary desktop. It is a stable, well maintianed distro that keeps up to date with security isuues. It's well integrated, and generally "just works". The biggest benefit - Apt. I recommend it to my clients, and would feel comfortable giving it to my technophobic mother.

I use Gentoo on one of my servers. It's a great tool for learning, it is insanely customizable, the package managment system (portage) works well. The downsides are the time required for installation of apps, and the lack of integration of various apps at the desktop level. New apps often don't "just work", but often require post-installation tweaking to make useful. Great for learning, but an annoyance on a desktop. As a server OS it is top notch.

My other server runs Debian.

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 30, 2006 23:48 UTC (Wed) by dberkholz (subscriber, #23346) [Link]

I'd really appreciate if you could file bugs on these new apps that don't "just work."

Donnie Berkholz
Desktop Manager, Gentoo

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 31, 2006 3:24 UTC (Thu) by thebluesgnr (guest, #37963) [Link]

"just works" is an expression that means something completely different depending on who you ask.

In a9db0's case, I think he uses "just works" as in you don't have to know what kernel, gcc, glibc, xorg, cups, alsa, etc, are before you can actually use your system to get things done. Your question is only considering the "works" part; Gentoo works, undeniably, but you have to take it to that point yourself (which is kind of the point of Gentoo, right?).

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 31, 2006 6:04 UTC (Thu) by dberkholz (subscriber, #23346) [Link]

You're right, there are different degrees of "just works." But in Gentoo, the hard work is in setting up the base system. Once you've gotten to the point where X runs and the sound works, apps should pretty much just install and work. If that isn't the case, there's a problem.

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 31, 2006 22:04 UTC (Thu) by a9db0 (subscriber, #2181) [Link]

The classic example is that of USB cameras and the like. On Kubuntu, it works out of the box - I plug in the Canon, open digikam, search for cameras, click the found camera, and start looking at photos. Last time I tried this on Gentoo, I spent two days (off and on) mucking about in hotplug scripts to make it work. Now admittedly, that was over a year ago, and has probably improved. But there is no way I would ask a client to do that, let alone my technophobic mom.(1)

My other issue is with spending the compile time on the desktop. On my server it isn't as much of an issue - it's in the closet, and it doesn't affect me. On my desktop it affects me, as it slows down what I am doing, and waiting for compiles to run means I can't have whatever tool I need right now. I'm impatient, I'll admit. But if I need digikam I can get it in a minute or so. Not so if I have to compile. There are volumes of flame wars following the various sides of this argument, so let's please not repeat them here. Suffice to say I've made my decision about what works for me. And isn't that the real benefit that Linux distributions afford us all?

On a separate note, one thing the Gentoo project should be most proud of is its documentation. It is thorough, complete, and up to date. I frequently refer to it when problem solving, even on other distros. Everyone on the documentation team deserves congrats and thanks and a free beer.

Dave

(1) "Technophobic mom" is not my equivalent to ESR's famous aunt Tilly. As an example, I just spent 20 minutes on the phone with dad explaining how to activate the power level startbar applet on his new XP laptop. And he's the computer literate one of the duo. Mom would not have tried.

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 31, 2006 22:27 UTC (Thu) by dberkholz (subscriber, #23346) [Link]

I haven't personally had this problem, but the hotplug scripts aren't Gentoo-specific. If other distributions are fixing issues with 'em, they should be sending the fixes upstream.

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 31, 2006 12:27 UTC (Thu) by job (subscriber, #670) [Link]

That's funny, I do it the opposite way. I use Gentoo primarily on my
desktop because it is very up to date and has extensive support for
non-free applications that I need in my work.

But I wouldn't dare use it on production servers, there's too much
breakage from time to time.

(For non-Gentooists: There is really no Gentoo equivalent of a stable
tree, so the continous upgrades aren't always backwards compatible.)

Results from the 2006 Desktop Linux Survey (DesktopLinux)

Posted Aug 31, 2006 23:21 UTC (Thu) by wartstew (guest, #9819) [Link]

Now my contribution to getting this thread off topic:

I'll 2nd the suggestion of using Debian to combat bloat. Debian also
combats Gentoo's post configuration and intregration problems as well as
the need to compile everything since it has a huge multi-arch pre-compiled
repository.

I usually install Debian using "debootstrap" because it can install the
sid/unstable (snapshot) distribution directly. I typically start with a
boot CD like DSL then grab debootstrap and go. This method isn't very
straight forward, but does give me a small (under 200 meg) bootable linux
system on a hard drive with a point-and-shoot package manager (aptitude)
where I can then install current versions of just what I want directly
from the Internet. The package management system installs all the
dependent packages, then runs a post install script that sets reasonable
defaults, and makes entries in various window manager's menus. Although
the whole system could still use a lot of polish, it works for me better
than anything else I've tried.