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The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

The Linux Standard Base project will provide a vendor-neutral standard, backed by source code, upon which to build Linux distributions, much as the Linux kernel project provides a single kernel that is shared by all distributions....

The application of the standard will be that any program that runs successfully on the reference platform can be expected to run on all Linux systems.

With these words, the Linux Standard Base project was launched in May of 1998. This project set out to create a reference platform which would encourage the porting of commercial application programs to the Linux system. By eliminating the need to create a separate version of a program for every supported distribution, the LSB, it was thought, would bring about a wealth of Linux-based applications without impeding the free development of a variety of Linux distributions.

Over the subsequent years, the LSB has limped along under a succession of leaders. Various LSB standards addressing various parts of the system have been created. Most of the major distributions have made the effort to implement LSB compliance, so there is a vast number of deployed, LSB-certified Linux systems out there. Only one little, nagging problem has remained, however: no application vendors have stepped forward to certify their products for Linux.

That situation changed quietly a couple of weeks ago, however, when the Free Standards Group (the parent organization which is developing the LSB) announced the first two certified LSB applications. These applications - RealPlayer and MySQL - are no strangers to the Linux platform, so their certification is unlikely to change life for many Linux users. RealPlayer already works on the bulk of Linux distributions, and MySQL, being free software, is shipped with most of them. But the fact that these vendors made the effort to certify their products shows that the LSB effort - recently returned to life under the leadership of Ian Murdock - might just go somewhere this time.

The real test, however, will be whether any new applications, previously unsupported under Linux, hit the market with LSB certification. Thus far, the LSB has failed to encourage any vendors - any at all - to support Linux by porting to the LSB platform. The recent announcement has not changed that fact - RealPlayer and MySQL were already available to Linux users in an uncertified form.

Clearly, in 1998, the LSB was ahead of its time. The proprietary application vendors, for the most part, were not even close to being ready to support their products on Linux. There is not much that the LSB effort could have done to change that fact. As Linux grows, however, vendors will begin to believe that there might be a worthwhile market to be found there; the LSB intends to be there when they come around. To that end, the Free Standards Group has set up a new developers network with information for vendors writing applications for the LSB.

Many LWN readers have little interest in the creation of a vibrant market for proprietary Linux applications. The available free software meets their needs, and, where it doesn't, projects are underway to improve the situation. For many, the installation of proprietary applications would only compromise the years-long effort to create a free system. These people care little about the progress of the LSB.

The fact remains, however, that there is a large variety of proprietary software for which no free equivalent exists, not even in an early stage of development. There is also a large body of potential users who will not consider moving over to Linux until the applications they need are available. If the LSB succeeds in encouraging ports of some of those applications, it could encourage some of those users to make the jump to free software. And that, in the end, should be a good thing.


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The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Aug 31, 2006 5:21 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

There's a rather important and influential set of application vendors that has for a number of years provided large numbers of applications for Linux: the electronic design automation industry. Every chip produced uses this software, and many applications go for $100K per seat or more. Windows never was a contender for serious chip design; Solaris on SPARCs used to be dominant but Linux has now taken over. However, the EDA industry doesn't pay any attention to the LSB; rather, there are two supported Linux flavors: Red Hat and SuSE/Novell.

The problem with certifying to the LSB is that, since it is a specification, not an implementation, there is no amount of testing that you can do to gain confidence that a complex application that stretches a machine to its limit, like place-and-route for a 100M gate chip, will work on "any LSB system". You can verify that the application uses only APIs mentioned in the LSB spec, but this does not suffice. The vendor can tell the customer that he is welcome to try ChipWhacker on FooLinux, and maybe it will work, but if it doesn't work he'll have to install RHEL or SUSE Enterprise if he wants support. And since ChipWhacker costs $200K and RHEL or SUSE cost less than 1/100th of that, and since if the chip isn't out by Christmas, the company loses millions, what do you think the customer will do?

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Aug 31, 2006 6:25 UTC (Thu) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]

What LSB does is clearly delineates the lines of responsibility. On
which side of the LSB spec line does the misbehavior exist, and so
therefore who is responsible.

It is probably reasonable to buy a very expensive LSB-certified
application if you have some sort of very expensive support contract with
FooLinux that promises to resolve any issues with their
LSB-implementation. If you don't have a contract like this, then it is
not so reasonable.

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Aug 31, 2006 11:16 UTC (Thu) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link]

Who's responsible is not the issue. The point is you cannot certify that an application works on any LSB system, because no such beast exists.

What I think needs to happen is they need to release a Live CD which supports the LSB and *nothing* else. Then people can install this and run their applications and be confident that it's "LSB compatable".

That's a fair bit of work though...

Take a look at the LSB Sample Implementation

Posted Aug 31, 2006 13:18 UTC (Thu) by kingdon (subscriber, #4526) [Link]

Well, there is http://www.freestandards.org/impl/

The idea of packaging it as a Live CD is a good one, and might be a smaller project than starting from scratch.

Take a look at the LSB Sample Implementation

Posted Aug 31, 2006 21:34 UTC (Thu) by jasonspiro (guest, #38047) [Link]

It sounds like there already is an LSB live CD:

"The LSB-si can be run in one of three different modes: the chroot LSB-si, the UML LSB-si, and the bootable Knoppix LSB-si. Software for each mode can be downloaded from the LSB Download Web site."

--The middle of the Free book Building Applications with the Linux Standard Base

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Sep 8, 2006 17:07 UTC (Fri) by wilck (subscriber, #29844) [Link]

Exactly. Same thing with SAP, for example. Actually, same thing with almost every commercial application I have looked at so far.

Unfortunately, it seems that we are watching the emergence of "de-facto industry standards" in the Linux domain, LSB being no more than a niche player.

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Sep 1, 2006 16:35 UTC (Fri) by samj (subscriber, #7135) [Link]

I've been trying to convince product managers at Citrix to target the LSB for our products (eg ICA Client, Secure Access Client) for some time. I think everyone would win from this (Citrix, LSB and users) but I understand there's a fair bit of work in it, and there's some questions about dependencies not specified in the LSB (eg netfilter interfaces). We'll see...

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Sep 21, 2006 15:00 UTC (Thu) by robmar15 (guest, #40650) [Link]

SMJ, Intel has a program to assist application developers with LSB certification. I agree with your comments. Let me know if you're interested

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Sep 5, 2006 12:58 UTC (Tue) by job (guest, #670) [Link]

I always felt LSB was a Red Hat thing, didn't it use to require package management by RPM?

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Sep 7, 2006 7:53 UTC (Thu) by niner (subscriber, #26151) [Link]

You certainly felt wrong. SuSE was the first distribution to be LSB compilant.

And yes LSB requires that RPM packages _can be installed_ on an LSB compilant system. It did never state that the distribution should be RPM based. As as you maybe know, Red Hat isn't even the only distribution to use RPM as package manager...

The Linux Standard Base gets some applications

Posted Sep 10, 2006 14:37 UTC (Sun) by hazelsct (guest, #3659) [Link]

Indeed. You can make Debian lsb-compliant by installing a couple of packages.

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