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Quote of the weekQuote of the weekPosted Jul 27, 2006 0:48 UTC (Thu) by zooko (subscriber, #2589)Parent article: Quote of the week
You know, I've often heard comments about Hans being obnoxious or flaming people in e-mail, or something, but I've never seen a post from him that was offensive. This one, for example, appears to be a sincere and respectful attempt to talk about a serious and emotionally charged issue.
Do other people "hear" Hans Reiser's voice differently than I do, or am I just reading the wrong e-mails? Maybe somebody could point out the posts to lkml which have earned him the reputation of being inflammatory.
Regards,
Zooko
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Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 1:00 UTC (Thu) by lyda (subscriber, #7429) [Link] Of course that post isn't offensive. Most people find irony quite entertaining.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 4:52 UTC (Thu) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link] ... and unintentional irony even more so.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 6:43 UTC (Thu) by msmeissn (subscriber, #13641) [Link] This quote shows some standard rhetoric approach where you diminishthe knowledge of the reviewers, by indirectly implying this fact. It reads for me as a more or less direct attack against reviewers like Al Viro or Christoph. Ciao, Marcus
Quote of the week Posted Jul 29, 2006 0:32 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link] I didn't find it indirect at all, unless in the fact that Hans didn't name names. (In the past, he did name names -- I remember a full frontal attack on Christoph when they first met, comparing their respective ages as well as hairstyles).What's special about Hans isn't that he thinks he's more skilled than the people who are judging him -- the people with the power. There's a lot of that going around in engineering. It's that he says so -- as a debating tactic, no less. Whether for politeness or psychological manipulation, people usually keep that opinion to themselves. What's more surprising is how flameproof the Linux developers are. LKML is a pretty hostile place, and those that remain there seem to be able to let such insults roll right off them, and the reviewers in question kept working with Hans on the issues as if he hadn't brought up the ad hominen stuff.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 8:06 UTC (Thu) by ekj (guest, #1524) [Link] He is obnoxious. This amounts to whining.Oh, the ext4 developers are treated so-and-so, they get into the mainline from the get go. We poor Reiser-developers are discriminated against on purely political reasons. Like for example that the evil people reviewing code aren't mature enough to deal with people OBVIOUSLY much more clever than themselves !. He doesn't state it just exactly like that, but that's how it comes trough.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 20:10 UTC (Thu) by Lovechild (guest, #3592) [Link] To his credit Hans has improved a lot in recent history and he is very responsive to comments on his code. I think everyone should lay off him for a while, it must be exausting to have your code sitting in -mm for +2 years and having nobody do anything about it despite having addressed every issue pointed out.
So give Hans (and peace for that matter) a chance, he is doing good work and his attitude has really improved a lot.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 29, 2006 23:07 UTC (Sat) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link] actually, he hasn't come close to addressing every issue with his code.
specificly there is still a huge issue with his plugin approach. it's a case of him and the kernel developers just not agreeing on the basic concept of havng that functionality in a filesystem
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 9:26 UTC (Thu) by hingo (guest, #14792) [Link] Not knowing how things look like on lkml, I found this quote obnoxious and flaming, although in a cleverly subtle way. In essence he is just saying that "I'm right you are wrong" or perhaps more bluntly "you are stupid". Kind of like a kid in kindergarten when others don't want to play his game.There is an uncomfortable little factoid that is the counterargument to Hans'. He is saying that Linus & co were lucky to get this far but should now relinguish control to him (I assume) since they really don't know what they're doing. The only problem is that Linus with friends are the ones who made what Linux is today, clearly by definition it cannot have overgrown them. If Hans thinks he can make a better Linux than Linus, there is nothing that should stop him really: It's Free Software and all that you know... I have nothing against Reiser4, it is good to have people trying to do things never done before. But there is no reason to expect that others will always adapt to your wishes.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 14:32 UTC (Thu) by kirkengaard (subscriber, #15022) [Link] Exactly. "You linux people are far inferior in skill to the people that your project, by its own merits, has attracted. However, because of your poor interpersonal skills, and the fact that you simply cannot acknowledge your betters, these clever people are scared away by the requirement that their code must be judged by their inferiors."
The inferiors Hans refers to are the people that have tried to help him get Reiser4 to play nice with the kernel's way of doing things. Their expertise, which he pooh-poohs, is in making things that work within the kernel, or making things to work with the kernel. And genius programmers work in the same C as the rest of the kernel plebes. It is not the case that the kernel developers can't understand good work and high skill. It is definitely the case that the kernel also selects for people of high clue.
The FS developers that Hans refers to -- assuming he isn't being grandiose -- have likely also come in with the same lack of clue if they think that submission review is for the purpose of "powertripping", and that "Fix your code so that it works within the kernel design" is obnoxious.
Quote of the week Posted Jul 27, 2006 16:49 UTC (Thu) by cventers (subscriber, #31465) [Link] > Exactly. "You linux people are far inferior in skill to the people that> your project, by its own merits, has attracted. However, because of > your poor interpersonal skills, and the fact that you simply cannot > acknowledge your betters, these clever people are scared away by the > requirement that their code must be judged by their inferiors."
Funny, one of the clever people supposedly scared away responded to the
> Both Jim Mostek and I left under our own steam at different times, Jim
Quote of the week Posted Jul 28, 2006 4:59 UTC (Fri) by piman (subscriber, #8957) [Link] Okay, how about http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/04/msg00412.html where he throws out "asian" as a slur (to insult Debian)?
Quote of the week Posted Aug 5, 2006 19:14 UTC (Sat) by millenix (guest, #39711) [Link] He actually was not using "asian" as a slur as you suggest, but as the most concise representation of differing social norms between scholarly communities in eastern Asian societies and western societies. I don't know how far this extends, but in Chinese tradition, attribution of work receives a far lower priority than correct results and usage.
I ran into this like a brick wall this summer, when I was reading background papers for a research project that I was joining. I noticed a flagrant instance of plagiarism (two complete paragraphs, with no reference at all to the original source), and got very different reactions when I brought this up to different professors. The American born and educated program director was ahgast and suggested that we report this find to the IEEE; my project mentor, of Chinese extraction and education, saw this as perfectly acceptable behaviour, because the semantic contents of the duplicated text were fairly basic knowledge in the particular discipline.
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