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Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report)Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report)Posted Jul 26, 2006 16:49 UTC (Wed) by josh_stern (guest, #4868)In reply to: Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) by ernstp Parent article: Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) It's always fun to be "in the know", but if we stop and think about important goals, it becomes clear that a lot more people have heard about "Ubuntu Linux" than have heard about universe, multiverse, or even apt-based package management. So it would make a lot of sense for the conclusion of the install to point people in the right directions - i.e. "here is how you enable the retrieval of these packages", "here is how you discover what is available", "here are the names of some popular packages you might be interested in", etc.
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Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 17:30 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] I think that at least a peson can look through the FAQ pages on Ubuntu.com
It's not like people don't try. Go to ubuntuguide.org and do a search for 'java'. It's the first link that comes up in a number of searches.
It gives you specificly directions on how to enable repository and to use alternatives to switch from gij to sun's java. The whole thing is like 7 lines of text and it tells you exactly what you must do.
I mean _SERIOUSLY_ Not even windows comes with a Java development environment.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 17:56 UTC (Wed) by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688) [Link] > I mean _SERIOUSLY_ Not even windows comes with a Java development environment.
But MacOS X does. What point are you trying to make?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 18:41 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] The point is that it's stupid to critize a OS based on how 'Enterprise Ready' it is when you can't even be bothered to type "ubuntu" into a google search, or visit Ubuntu's website and read the bare minimum of documentation.
This reviewer is basing how 'enterprise ready' something is based on the experiances of going through a installer, which is just silly.
Ya I can't expect a average user to know what repositories are having come straight from Windows, but I can expect them to at least look through the basic documentation provided for them. I mean it's not even 'man' files or anything.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 13:06 UTC (Thu) by emj (guest, #14307) [Link] The point is that GIJ is unworkable for most people, and installing that makes you think you have a java installed but you don't, only a subsitute. So that give me loads of email saying "hey this application doesn't work under Ubuntu Fix!!".
That's not fun..
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 19:09 UTC (Wed) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] My point is about how to make the Ubuntu install better for the new user; it isn't about defending the review or the reviewer.For the new user there is a big difference between what they could do with small effort if they knew how and what they can do and figure out with the knowledge they have. To take a different example, what about the new user who wants to look at their web pages with the arial font?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 22:07 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] The repositories setup is as easy as it can get.
To work around the legalities and logistics Ubuntu is simply not able to support as many packages as they'd like. So for packages they choose not to support they simply recompile from Debian packages and stick them in 'universe'. Then for stuff that is legally suspect they stick in multiverse.
This is reality provided by the limited time that Ubuntu is willing to devote to supporting packages. I don't know of a way around it. Using Debian sourced packages is probably the best thing they can do.
That's a hell of a lot easier to deal with then with Windows were there is no package management system. The closest you get is 'Tucows.com'.
"To take a different example, what about the new user who wants to look at their web pages with the arial font?"
open firefox.
Not too difficult.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 22:40 UTC (Wed) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] You are missing my pointsFirst, if you read back to my original comment you will see that I am not criticizing the (useful) separation of universe and multiverse, but rather advocating that the install itself should tell new users of their existence, how, and why they might want to search and access them. Regarding arial, that is one of the Microsoft fonts that is non-free and has to be installed in a special way to deal with the special licensing. It is indirectly part of multiverse, not something installed by default. I mentioned it as an example of something there a regular use might well want for their desktop.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 21:45 UTC (Wed) by peace (guest, #10016) [Link] I have a hard time believing that this guy is a Java developer if he expects everything to be handed to him on a silver platter. Seriously. This guy was trying to do Java development, not scan a photo of his grand kid or check his e-mail. Ubuntu has to make decisions based on what the most likely scenario is for their target audience. Ubuntu is trying to be friendly to people who just want a computer that works so they can browse the web, e-mail, write a document, etc. Cluttering Synaptic with a bunch of dev tools will not help that goal.
Ubuntu has made the right decisions regarding what to include in their out of the box install. If you'r a developer on Ubuntu be thankful that it's just a few trivial configuration changes to get yourself setup.
Kind Regards
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 15:13 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] I dunno. Ubuntu (specially 6.06LTS) is supposed to be an Enterprise ready Linux system, and that certainly includes developing Java stuff.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 15:34 UTC (Thu) by peace (guest, #10016) [Link] They say enterprise ready but I think they are refering to the Server version of Dapper that they are going to support for 5 years.
Also, enterprise ready does not mean it's ready for _your_ enterprise right out of the box with all the shortcuts and desktop backgrounds necessary for the opporation of your core data services. You will still need to tailor it to meat your needs. As I said, this is trivial so all the fuss seems like so much whining.
Kind Regards
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 17:10 UTC (Thu) by arafel (subscriber, #18557) [Link] Depends on what you mean by "Enterprise Ready". I mean, I'd never have thought of Java development as a requirement for that.
Plus, to be honest, if the guy can't work out the mechanics of removing gij and installing Sun's JDK, I don't want to run anything he's written...
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