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Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report)
Here's a
review of Ubuntu Dapper on the Jem Report; it shows that we clearly are
not all looking for the same thing in a Linux distribution. "I
figured I'd do some Java programming exercises while I tested Ubuntu, but I
couldn't find a Java Development Kit in either of the package
managers. There was a Java 5.0 Runtime Environment, but no JDK -- or at
least, searches for 'jdk' and 'java' didn't turn up anything in
Synaptic. To top it all off, Ubuntu 6.06 comes with a fake Java installed
-- GIJ. I want the real Java, or I want nothing so that I can install the
real Java properly; I do not want a half-hearted, half-working Java
facsimile that doesn't even have a browser plugin."
(Log in to post comments)
Plugin Posted Jul 26, 2006 13:15 UTC (Wed) by mjw (subscriber, #16740) [Link] A free plugin is coming soon to a desktop near you. Fedora Core 6 test 2 is experimenting now with gcjwebplugin based on GNU Classpath and gcj: gcjwebplugin has landed in Rawhide
Plugin Posted Jul 26, 2006 18:32 UTC (Wed) by jeld (guest, #22397) [Link] Very nice, but it still doesn't address compatibility issues.
1.5 compatibility Posted Jul 26, 2006 18:44 UTC (Wed) by mjw (subscriber, #16740) [Link] Very nice, but it still doesn't address compatibility issues.We are working as hard as we can, honest! Look at one of the followups in that thread. We tried to also get the free 1.5 support in, but there wasn't enough testing time this cycle. But expect 1.5 compatibility for FC7. And probably sooner for other distros.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 13:29 UTC (Wed) by ghelmling (guest, #4140) [Link] Okay, I admit that I only skimmed TFA, but what's wrong with the "sun-java5-jdk" package? It shows up in my install of Dapper. Or even going to java.sun.com, if you want Sun's java?
Also, just for the java plugins, Dapper includes both gcjwebplugin and sun-java5-plugin, though they're in universe and multiverse respectively.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 18:34 UTC (Wed) by jeld (guest, #22397) [Link] "sun-java5-jdk" is in multiverse. Multiverse is not enabled by default and the interface in synaptic will only enable universe, no multiverse. To make multiverse packages available you need to go and edit sources.list either through the synaptic interface or directly.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 17:01 UTC (Thu) by mdz@debian.org (subscriber, #14112) [Link] The runtime is also in multiverse, and the author seemed to find that OK.
Applications->Add/Remove, check the appropriate checkboxes, search for java.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 13:45 UTC (Wed) by ernstp (subscriber, #13694) [Link] I seems obvious that he hasn't heard of Universe and Multiverse...
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 16:49 UTC (Wed) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] It's always fun to be "in the know", but if we stop and think about important goals, it becomes clear that a lot more people have heard about "Ubuntu Linux" than have heard about universe, multiverse, or even apt-based package management. So it would make a lot of sense for the conclusion of the install to point people in the right directions - i.e. "here is how you enable the retrieval of these packages", "here is how you discover what is available", "here are the names of some popular packages you might be interested in", etc.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 17:30 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] I think that at least a peson can look through the FAQ pages on Ubuntu.com
It's not like people don't try. Go to ubuntuguide.org and do a search for 'java'. It's the first link that comes up in a number of searches.
It gives you specificly directions on how to enable repository and to use alternatives to switch from gij to sun's java. The whole thing is like 7 lines of text and it tells you exactly what you must do.
I mean _SERIOUSLY_ Not even windows comes with a Java development environment.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 17:56 UTC (Wed) by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688) [Link] > I mean _SERIOUSLY_ Not even windows comes with a Java development environment.
But MacOS X does. What point are you trying to make?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 18:41 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] The point is that it's stupid to critize a OS based on how 'Enterprise Ready' it is when you can't even be bothered to type "ubuntu" into a google search, or visit Ubuntu's website and read the bare minimum of documentation.
This reviewer is basing how 'enterprise ready' something is based on the experiances of going through a installer, which is just silly.
Ya I can't expect a average user to know what repositories are having come straight from Windows, but I can expect them to at least look through the basic documentation provided for them. I mean it's not even 'man' files or anything.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 13:06 UTC (Thu) by emj (guest, #14307) [Link] The point is that GIJ is unworkable for most people, and installing that makes you think you have a java installed but you don't, only a subsitute. So that give me loads of email saying "hey this application doesn't work under Ubuntu Fix!!".
That's not fun..
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 19:09 UTC (Wed) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] My point is about how to make the Ubuntu install better for the new user; it isn't about defending the review or the reviewer.For the new user there is a big difference between what they could do with small effort if they knew how and what they can do and figure out with the knowledge they have. To take a different example, what about the new user who wants to look at their web pages with the arial font?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 22:07 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] The repositories setup is as easy as it can get.
To work around the legalities and logistics Ubuntu is simply not able to support as many packages as they'd like. So for packages they choose not to support they simply recompile from Debian packages and stick them in 'universe'. Then for stuff that is legally suspect they stick in multiverse.
This is reality provided by the limited time that Ubuntu is willing to devote to supporting packages. I don't know of a way around it. Using Debian sourced packages is probably the best thing they can do.
That's a hell of a lot easier to deal with then with Windows were there is no package management system. The closest you get is 'Tucows.com'.
"To take a different example, what about the new user who wants to look at their web pages with the arial font?"
open firefox.
Not too difficult.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 22:40 UTC (Wed) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] You are missing my pointsFirst, if you read back to my original comment you will see that I am not criticizing the (useful) separation of universe and multiverse, but rather advocating that the install itself should tell new users of their existence, how, and why they might want to search and access them. Regarding arial, that is one of the Microsoft fonts that is non-free and has to be installed in a special way to deal with the special licensing. It is indirectly part of multiverse, not something installed by default. I mentioned it as an example of something there a regular use might well want for their desktop.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 21:45 UTC (Wed) by peace (guest, #10016) [Link] I have a hard time believing that this guy is a Java developer if he expects everything to be handed to him on a silver platter. Seriously. This guy was trying to do Java development, not scan a photo of his grand kid or check his e-mail. Ubuntu has to make decisions based on what the most likely scenario is for their target audience. Ubuntu is trying to be friendly to people who just want a computer that works so they can browse the web, e-mail, write a document, etc. Cluttering Synaptic with a bunch of dev tools will not help that goal.
Ubuntu has made the right decisions regarding what to include in their out of the box install. If you'r a developer on Ubuntu be thankful that it's just a few trivial configuration changes to get yourself setup.
Kind Regards
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 15:13 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] I dunno. Ubuntu (specially 6.06LTS) is supposed to be an Enterprise ready Linux system, and that certainly includes developing Java stuff.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 15:34 UTC (Thu) by peace (guest, #10016) [Link] They say enterprise ready but I think they are refering to the Server version of Dapper that they are going to support for 5 years.
Also, enterprise ready does not mean it's ready for _your_ enterprise right out of the box with all the shortcuts and desktop backgrounds necessary for the opporation of your core data services. You will still need to tailor it to meat your needs. As I said, this is trivial so all the fuss seems like so much whining.
Kind Regards
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 17:10 UTC (Thu) by arafel (subscriber, #18557) [Link] Depends on what you mean by "Enterprise Ready". I mean, I'd never have thought of Java development as a requirement for that.
Plus, to be honest, if the guy can't work out the mechanics of removing gij and installing Sun's JDK, I don't want to run anything he's written...
Where to find Sun Java in Ubuntu and Debian Posted Jul 26, 2006 13:51 UTC (Wed) by sladen (subscriber, #27402) [Link] System->Administration->Package Manager->Search: The package is called 'sun-java5-jdk' and has been available in Ubuntu and Debian (technically, in multiverse and non-free) ever since the license change allowed the wider distribution (May 2006 LWN coverage) of Sun's JDK and Runtime. A option for Ubuntu, although not for Debian, is perhaps moving the Sun Java packages from 'multiverse' to the new 'dapper-commerical' repository, to maybe make them more visible and even easier to find; presumbly (because universe and multiverse are not enabled by default) the package wasn't found by a similar search. It's probably a good demonstration to anyone listening (especially from Sun) that until Java is available under truely Free licensing terms, that the adoption and use of Java on GNU/Linux is still going to remain fairly painful; even when distributors strive their best. Until Free Java appears, we're stuck with
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 17:21 UTC (Wed) by whig (guest, #8781) [Link] This Jem Matzen fellow is quite a character, if you check his blog. Really classy. According to him, when a child is beaten to death by police, it's okay because he had stolen a car once in the past and only innocent people can be victims. Global warming is a complete fabrication. Lots more. I wouldn't take much he has to say about anything seriously.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 17:54 UTC (Wed) by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688) [Link] I fail to see what disagreeing with him on his personal views about global warming and juvinile punishment have to with open-source operating systems. His blog isn't even on the site which the article links to. I had to google for it and discovered it's at a different domain. So, tech writers aren't allowed to have personal opinions even if they only express them in a separate forum?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 18:37 UTC (Wed) by jeld (guest, #22397) [Link] I also happen to think that global warming is a fabrication.What does that have to do with Ubuntu Linux?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 22:25 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link] Personally I think that the concept that there is a average tempurature that the earth should be at is a fabrication. The Earth's tempurature is governed mostly (as in 99.9999~%) by the distance of the Earth from the Sun and the power output of the Sun.
And the Sun is not a constant steady power source. As it varies so does the Earth's tempurature. As seen by sun spot activity the Sun has much more magnetic activity and thusly indicates a higher rate of activity then what was present just a few decades ago. This higher rate of activity probably coincides with a slightly higher radiation output. Of course then the tempurature of the earth is going to change slightly due to this.
There were times in not-to-distant (geologically speaking) past were the Earth's tempurature was much higher then it is now. And there was different times when it was much lower. And there were times marked by high tempurature fluctuations. Now none of those times had humans ever had any impact on the earth's climate. So since it's been much hotter and much colder and none of that had to do anything with us... The idea that cars or jets or even powerplants are causing world-wide change is kinda suspect.
but that doesn't have anything to do with my opinion of Ubuntu. I can be absolutely right about one and wrong about the other. Or right about both, or wrong about both. There is no relationship between the two..
Although now that I think about it.. I do prefer Debian so that may be part of the issue. :-)
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 15:56 UTC (Thu) by peace (guest, #10016) [Link] The Global warming crowed does not discount all the factors you mention. They simply state that now the activity of humans is a significant factor that must be considered when discusing changes in global temperature. As we can control our own effects in the equation, it makes sense to set policies that will be most beneficial for the comfortable survival of the human race. Also, we might want to factor in a few other species in our survival policies if for nothing else then to keep things interesting.
Kind Regards
Gerbil worming Posted Jul 27, 2006 19:28 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] Planetary temperature fluctuations aren't a crippling problem if they take thousands of years to manifest, but what we see happening now is way, way too fast for most species, including our own, to adapt to. Biologists estimate a loss of 30% of species by 2050. Mass extinctions have happened many times in the past. They also are not a crippling problem, except to the species that go extinct, or to the species that depend on them. Of course we do depend on a great many species, e.g. to eat, to pollinate crops, and to build houses from. Even in the worst case, humanity probably won't go extinct, but a 90% (or 99%) population reduction would be hard, particularly on those most dependent on the rest; e.g. you and me.
It's nice to pretend the Earth is too big for people to affect, but the facts are that (1) the CO2 level is much higher than a century ago, and (2) we are clearly the source, and (3) big changes obviously affect the climate.
Global warming Posted Jul 27, 2006 21:35 UTC (Thu) by AJWM (guest, #15888) [Link] (1) the CO2 level is much higher than a century agoI'll give you that one, for very limited values of "much". (2) we are clearly the source But not that one. "Clearly"? I don't think so. Natural sources of atmospheric CO2 still outweigh anthropogenic sources. It could even be that global warming causes an increase in atmospheric CO2 -- warm water dissolves less gas than cold water, etc. (3) big changes obviously affect the climate Nor that one. Big changes in what, CO2? For what values of "big"? 10%, 100%, 1000%? How "obviously"? The greenhouse gas with the most effect on Earth's climate -- and there is an effect or else the polar caps would extend to about latitude 45 or so (recall how cold the Apollo 13 crew got when they had to power down and rely on the equilibrium between sunlight and thermal radiation) -- is H2O. Other gases like CO2 and CH4, etc. have relatively small contributions to the greenhouse effect. There is a lot of H2O in the atmosphere -- and 70% or so of the Earth's surface is open water. And are you sure it's not the climate (as influenced by, say, variations in the solar "constant") that has an effect on CO2 levels? Even assuming that global warming is actually happening -- it may well be, but the evidence isn't yet solid enough to rule out local warming -- there's no evidence that changing our CO2 production will have any effect on it. We may well be better off just painting our roofs and roads white, increasing (slightly) the planetary albedo and reflecting back more sunlight. Might be cheaper, too.
Global warming Posted Jul 28, 2006 8:43 UTC (Fri) by Wol (guest, #4433) [Link] I'll give you that one, for very limited values of "much". How's about a value of "much" of 100%? When I was at school, the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere was accepted as 0.03%. Today's figure is 0.04%. Pre Industrial revolution it was 0.02%. So, in the period occupied by the industrial revolution (okay, that's two centuries, not one) the CO2 levels have doubled. That's amazing! The El Nino/La Nina cycle has driven or been driven by the South American Upwelling (not sure about cause and effect) for - according to geological evidence - maybe 150 million years. Global warming halted the upwelling in 1976. For the past 40 years, most of "the ten hottest summers to date" have all been in the preceding decade. In other words, pretty much EVERY summer for forty years has either been a record breaker, or not far off it. In other words, SOMETHING is up. Believe in global warming or not, as you wish. The evidence to me is frightening. And the consequences could be horrendous. How would you like to see sea-levels rise by metres over a period of days? That's quite plausible. What's going to happen when the Siberian Tundra melts? (They think that's gone past the point of no return already ...) Etc etc - we're in for an interesting century or two - I just hope it's not squashed into a decade or two instead ... Cheers,
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 19:15 UTC (Wed) by kalahann (subscriber, #33885) [Link] "Include NDISwrapper. It's not very large, so I don't understand why NDISwrapper can't be included in the base install. When you don't need it, you don't know it's there, but when you do need it, its absence is intolerable." Whis all the black magic that appears to be involved to get a wifi card to work with ndiswrapper (seek the working windows driver that will work, fwcuttering it, etc) I don't think apt-getting ndiswrapper is such a hassle in comparison. "can't something be worked out with Adobe to include the Acrobat Reader and Flash plugins" I won't even comment on this If this review isn't a joke, what is it?
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 27, 2006 8:31 UTC (Thu) by B.Tegge (subscriber, #5720) [Link] "Whis all the black magic that appears to be involved to get a wifi card to work with ndiswrapper (seek the working windows driver that will work, fwcuttering it, etc) I don't think apt-getting ndiswrapper is such a hassle in comparison."
It becomes a hassle when you need ndiswrapper to get a working internet connection ...
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 30, 2006 21:18 UTC (Sun) by alspnost (guest, #2763) [Link] Well, for wireless drivers, sure. But find me a wireless laptop that doesn't also have an ethernet port :-) Anyway, the point is that including ndiswrapper would be ridiculous - it's a sticking plaster to cover over the true problem, which is getting more driver support into the Linux kernel.
Ubuntu Linux 6.06 review (Jem Report) Posted Jul 26, 2006 23:52 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link] > To top it all off, Ubuntu 6.06 comes with a fake Java installed -- GIJ. I want the real Java, or I want nothing so that I can install the real Java properly; I do not want a half-hearted, half-working Java facsimile that doesn't even have a browser plugin.
Where is the x86_64 plugin in the "real" Java then? The bug has been open with Sun for _over_3.5_years_:
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4802695
What a wanker, calling GCJ fake!
Why anyone is still reading Jem's ravings is the question Posted Jul 27, 2006 2:00 UTC (Thu) by jmorris42 (subscriber, #2203) [Link] Seriously, can anyone point to anything Jem has written (on Linux or F/OSS software at least) that actually adds anything but unintentional humor to the topic? Saying "Just bright enough to be dangerous" is being overly nice. The average slashdot user posts more insightful commentary.
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