Dress for success? Decide on your goals, then act to reach them, by David A. Wheeler (Groklaw)

Posted Apr 7, 2006 20:41 UTC (Fri) by pheldens (guest, #19366) [Link]

Posted Apr 8, 2006 0:45 UTC (Sat) by stock (guest, #5849) [Link]

Posted Apr 8, 2006 15:22 UTC (Sat) by richo123 (guest, #24309) [Link]

I am a professor and hire computer support staff for scientific computing in a university (NYU).

If a computer geek turned up at my interview in an expensive suit and tie I would be automatically highly suspicious.

I am interested in technical and interpersonal skills not clothes and other "powerpoint" items.

Posted Apr 9, 2006 11:53 UTC (Sun) by zotz (guest, #26117) [Link]

~;-)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Here is something I posted elsewhere when this dress code think broke a while back:

[-----

'the lax dress code of the open-source community is one of the reasons behind the software's slow uptake in commercial environments.'

Assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, my response would be that if the clean cut, three piece suit set did more of the actual important work on the big projects, then they would be more visible and this would not be such a big problem.

Therefore, it is the clean cut, three piece suit set who are really holding back the uptake of Free Software in commercial environments.

Assuming what we did, what is wrong with the reasoning that followed?

-----]

all the best,

drew

http://www.ourmedia.org/node/187924
Bahamian Nonsense - enjoy.

Posted Apr 10, 2006 9:29 UTC (Mon) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link]

Personally I have never got a job when I went to the interview in a suit. I think it is something about whether you feel comfortable or not. If you sit there in an expensive suit and look unconfortable, it may easily be interpreted as insecurity or 'bad chemistry', I suspect. My best advice would always be: 'Be clean and comfortable'.

Posted Apr 10, 2006 15:26 UTC (Mon) by edmundo (guest, #616) [Link]

True story, allegedly.

Posted Apr 10, 2006 18:18 UTC (Mon) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

When I started getting seriously involved in the campaign against software patents, I had to make the decision. At the time, I didn't even own a suit. I was a sandal-wearing programmer with a beard.

With a job interview, yes, you can turn up in your choice of clothes and you can use that as a test to see if the employer is your type. As a lobbyist, you have to be convincing to all politicians. In fact, you'll find that "your type" of politician is often already on your side, or can be brought over easier, so you end up having to spend the most time trying to convince the politicians you don't like.

With some politicians, if you turn up looking informal - unless you have amazing charisma - you will have wasted your time. There's no time to waste.

I suppose the reasons for sandals, t-shirts, and never shaving is that it's simple, and cash efficient (and money is time). I can still have that simplicity most days of the week, and my suits are all second hand. A recent photo is on my homepage.

Posted Apr 10, 2006 21:38 UTC (Mon) by jake (editor, #205) [Link]

it sounds like David would just have us give up ...

i would also note that sometimes the dominant, most capable tool for the job runs on an OS that some of us won't touch under almost any circumstances ... should we ditch our 'hopeless ideals' and capitulate?

i'll stick with my own thinking on this one, thanks ...

jake

Posted Apr 10, 2006 21:50 UTC (Mon) by s_cargo (guest, #10473) [Link]

I've lumped us into three categories, adapt, rebel, and unknown. I included myself in the guest-adapt category because I think that first you pick what you want to do, then you dress the part (ie. no bank managers in torn t-shirts and no plumbers in tuxes).

		total	adapt	rebel	unknown
subs		13	7	3	3
guests		11	2	6	3

Posted Apr 11, 2006 21:46 UTC (Tue) by dwheeler (guest, #1216) [Link]

What prompted me to write this original article? Basically, I kept seeing the ineffective way that some developers explain themselves and their projects or issues (e.g., software patents) when they go to "the other guy's turf". Showing up to talk to a government official (on official business and on their turf) in rags, smelling like no showering has ever occurred, and mumbling unconfidently, are going to make it really hard for the official to even SEE their points. Yes, it happens. Which was Quinn's point, and mine too. Yes, the "best solution" should always win, but why should its advocates make it HARDER to see all the solutions objectively? If you have no particular goal, then my recommendation quickly becomes the null set (you're done!). However, many people have an objective that involves changing other people's minds; in the FLOSS world, Raymond recommends thinking about clothing, Perens wears a tie when speaking at government-type settings, and Bradley Kuhn wears a suit when necessary. Rick Moen just sent me an email saying that after talking with Raymond, "my ratty t-shirts and shorts invariably get replaced with polo shirt, slacks, and loafers for all dealings with the business world. I've never regretted that." And obviously both PJ and I agree on this article's point. If you're going out to convince members of other cultures, you need to consider their norms; you don't necessarily need to ADOPT what they do (e.g., use the prince of another country approach), but you better CONSIDER them.

I believe that ALL of us should be prepared to explain ourselves and our views, if necessary. Sometimes each of us needs to do a necessary task even if it's not what we're good at, because no one else can or will. Do not leave all of this to the corporations like Red Hat, etc... because while they do a lot of great stuff, in the end they must represent the company's objectives, which are not always the same as yours. So for those of you who don't normally do this kind of explaining, and suddenly have to, I'm trying to provide useful (if somewhat unpopular) advice. But obviously it'd be best if the task of talking to outsiders was done primarily by people who are actually good at it. I think nearly all of us can agree that some people are better at talking to non-technical people than others.

jbb suggests that "FOSS friendly people who are comfortable in suits [should] volunteer to become corporate reps for the FOSS projects of their choice." I think this is a REALLY REALLY GOOD IDEA, and one I don't want to get lost in the shuffle. I'd call this role "public representative", since it's not always talking to corporations (and some corporations are developers who don't need that). I'd suggest that the project website list the public representative(s) and how to contact him/her/them, if they have such a role. The public reps' job would be to explain the project and its resulting software to potential users of the product (who are NOT software developers). I suspect only larger projects, distributions, or lynchpin programs could justify having such a role... but where they make sense, I think they'd really make sense.

Then the text I wrote would only be focused on the public reps, since they're the only ones "out in public" (for that project). I doubt software tools (like gcc) have a strong need for such a role, because the developers can speak the language of their users directly. But other projects really need someone who is good at translating the project into terms the nontechnical can understand, in ways that they will best understand.

Posted Apr 20, 2006 11:20 UTC (Thu) by alfille (subscriber, #1631) [Link]

People are deeply programmed to respond to appearance as part of group dynamics. Appearing far out of dress for the organization will certainly marginalize you.

If you really want to protest, make a small pertubation. Dress like the rest except a FSF tie or tux lapel pin. That will be far more noticed.