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The end of the Fedora FoundationThe end of the Fedora FoundationPosted Apr 5, 2006 15:08 UTC (Wed) by philips (guest, #937)Parent article: The end of the Fedora Foundation
Most people who cared and used RHL for many years already went off of the RH/Fedora few years ago. Some went SUSE, some went Mandrake, some went Debian.
IOW, I hardly understand the target audience of the letter. As if somebody had illusions where control of Fedora have been all this years...
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The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 15:39 UTC (Wed) by thomask (guest, #17985) [Link] I agree. Anyone who really thought Fedora was going to become a decent community-orientated project along the lines of Ubuntu/Debian/Gentoo etc. was suffering from some delusions.
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 15:40 UTC (Wed) by mattdm (guest, #18) [Link] Most people who cared and used RHL for many years already went off of the RH/Fedora few years ago.Do you have any data to back up this claim?
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 16:03 UTC (Wed) by gowen (guest, #23914) [Link] Do you have any data to back up this claim?Assuming RH aren't lying about the amount of bandwidth the Fedora Core 5 isos sucked up, I'd go as far to say the data we have contradicts, rather than supports that claim. Unless, of course, "No-one goes there anymore, its too crowded." Besides, the Linux Kernel isn't a community project; it's ruled by a sometimes-benevolent dictator (and don't even get me started on the management structure of OpenBSD). It's equally difficult to get code into FSF projects like GCC and emacs. Why is it necessarily a bad thing if Linux distributions are managed in the same way? PS : the idea that people would switch to Novell's SuSE Linux because its a community-run project is too silly for words.
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 16:46 UTC (Wed) by error27 (subscriber, #8346) [Link] Communitee driven means how much outsiders work on the project as opposed to employees. The kernel is a communitee driven project. Linus doesn't pay any of the kernel developers they all come from random parts of the communitee.
Communitee doesn't mean good or bad. There are some sucky communitee driven projects.
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 18:55 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] That definition of 'community' is nonsensical; these days the vast majority of the work on Free or Open Source Software is done by people paid to work on that software; ie employees of some other entity. This is especially true of the Linux kernel.
You are confused in your defintion of "community", because that can be defined in many different ways. Do you perhaps mean a community of *users* or a community of *developers*? Using the former, I don't know of any distributions which can be called "community-driven", but using the latter, nearly everyone qualifies, including Fedora.
Free Software has always been about contribution; The best way to influence the process of your favorite project is to, well, contribute some work.
Note that crucial word: Contribution.
The majority of the developers contributing to Fedora are paid by RedHat and thus work towards RedHat's interests. Why shouldn't RedHat have the largest say in what Fedora does?
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 6, 2006 22:51 UTC (Thu) by error27 (subscriber, #8346) [Link] The key to what I was saying was that it's not _Linus's_ employee's who work on the kernel. It's employee's from RedHat, IBM, Novell etc who work on the kernel.
This affects how work is done. Linus doesn't say, "Bob, you work on devfs. Steve you work on preemption." Everyone decides for themselves what to work on. Sometimes the community can decide that some areas need more focus.
Obviously, Debian is a community effort. So it can be done.
When Fedora first launched some people hoped more developers would join the Fedora community and maintain packages. For example, Abiword was completely broken in rh9 and it caused the Abiword developers a lot of support headaches. If they could just distribute their own RPMs through the Fedora project maybe they could have avoided that.
It didn't turn out that way.
These days if Abiword was broken the developers would hopefully notice it before it went gold and file a bugzilla entry. So it's an improvement from before at least...
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 7, 2006 16:37 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
These day the upstream Abiword developers maintain the packages themselves in Fedora Extras and they like it better now than ever.
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 16:05 UTC (Wed) by lolando (subscriber, #7139) [Link] I have no idea about the claim or its validity, but Netcraft did show a net increase in Debian usage over the last few years.
Informal poll re: moving from Fedora to ...?? Posted Apr 5, 2006 16:15 UTC (Wed) by azhrei_fje (guest, #26148) [Link] How about an informal poll (probably not here, though!).
In my experience as an educator (I do contract Linux training), students
I would say the ratio is roughly 2:1 OpenSUSE vs. Fedora. I bring DVD-Rs
I switched away from RHL back around v7.3. I still have a couple of boxes
Informal poll re: moving from Fedora to ...?? Posted Apr 6, 2006 5:42 UTC (Thu) by loening (guest, #174) [Link] Well, I've been in graduate school for the last couple of years (Bioengineering), and I've never actually seen a student run anything besides Redhat or Fedora. The campus shell servers here, however, are currently running Ubuntu.
The end of the Fedora Foundation Posted Apr 5, 2006 18:28 UTC (Wed) by charris (subscriber, #13263) [Link] Guess I'm one of those unique individuals who made the switch to Fedora. And Fedora keeps getting better and better with the expanding extras repository.
Question authority!
Chuck
The end of the Fedora ... film at 11 Posted Apr 5, 2006 18:51 UTC (Wed) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] I keep hearing about how people are moving away from Fedora left and right, but the Fedora downloads have been growing from the mirrors I look after. I am not saying Ubuntu etc arent growing also, but I havent seen this big drop-off of downloads.
What I do see is that people going to the LUGS arent running it anymore.. but I dont see a lot of the people who are downloading/using it at LUG meetings either. The LUGs seem to be the same people with a couple of new faces every now and then but not a large growth in their numbers.
Note: While I worked at Red Hat, I do not have a staked interest if no-one else in the world used Fedora than me.
The end of the Fedora ... film at 11 Posted Apr 5, 2006 19:08 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] This anectdote displays one flaw, one best demonstrated by just about every hardware and gaming website. If you believe what you read there, you'd think that everyone has a pair of $500 graphics cards in a PC with a $1000 overclocked, watercooled processor in a case filled with midgets at a rave.
Which is clearly ludicrous.
LUGs tend to represent the fanatical extremes just as those review sites do.
So I'll say this: Don't discount the mainstream. That's where the *vast* majority of users are. Where you used to have to go to a LUG to get Linux installed successfully, now it rarely takes more than a couple of mouse clicks. You don't need to be a fanatic now, as it by and large JustWorks(tm).
And that's all most people care about.
The end of the Fedora ... film at 11 Posted Apr 5, 2006 19:36 UTC (Wed) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] pizza: I think I was subtly agreeing with you. I took what you stated as givens (LUGs being populated by the most 'devoted' Linux users)
The end of the Fedora ... film at 11 Posted Apr 6, 2006 7:51 UTC (Thu) by philips (guest, #937) [Link] I did not want to sound like "End of Fedora".
I was talking about people who still remember what RHL was and what Fedora was. (Like I do)
Every *new* user Fedora project gets has no knowledge what RHL was and what Fedora was. All they know is FC aka "Fedora Core".
Try to read the letter from the POV of new user: it make no sence.
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