Network install overdue [LWN.net]

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 16, 2006 21:50 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330)
Parent article: Fedora core 5 will (temporarily) break non-GPL modules

This reminds me of a complaint I've had for some time about the way Fedora does releases. Instead of giving everyone one CD (or a fraction of one CD) that has the base system, installs it, and then uses yum to retreive the latest versions of each package from the net, the Fedora project tells everyone to download four CDs, or a DVD ISO via BitTorrent, 80% of which consists of packages that the user will not install. This is a massive waste of bandwidth, especially when we have packages of signficant size that are already known to be broken before the first ship date. I recently installed Fedora Core 4 on a new machine, and yum needed to download more than a gigabyte of packages to update the system. Almost every large package had been replaced: the kernel, X, almost all of Gnome, OpenOffice, Firefox, and hundreds of other packages. Almost everything I installed from the CD was a waste of time. It also places an unnecessary hurdle in front of people who would like to try out Fedora.

I don't criticize Fedora for updating their packages frequently; this is a good thing. But Fedora could take a lesson from Debian: provide a small install image; install what you need (and only what you need) from the net. And since the consumers of ISOs, under this regime, will be those with limited access, it's not OK if the ISOs get to the point where half the packages need upgrades. It is then time to do a stable point release, as Debian does, and produce new ISOs that have the bug fixes included.

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Network install overdue

Posted Mar 16, 2006 21:52 UTC (Thu) by fenrus (guest, #31654) [Link]

that is in progress; Fedora Core 5 is a big step in that direction actually (the installer is now YUM based).

The next step is in FC6 to use network sources (you can already do FTP and HTTP installs of course, but that's not the same) and "application CDs" for lack of a better word (think "openoffice.org CD" "KDE CD" "GNOME CD" )

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 16, 2006 22:16 UTC (Thu) by kornak (guest, #17589) [Link]

There is a contradiction in your complaint. If Fedora provided a smaller
initial installation, how would that decrease the network update? It would
increase as you would be downloading more packages. There is a certain
balance now as most of what people are looking for is included on the
CD/DVD. If they remove these packages everyone would have to do a massive
update on each installation.

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 17, 2006 3:08 UTC (Fri) by proski (subscriber, #104) [Link]

It depends. If the distro is downloaded for just one installation, any unused package on CD is wasted bandwidth, and every downloaded package is downloaded just once. If the CD is going to be shared, then indeed, every package on CD is downloaded once, but the extra packages will be downloaded more than once.

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 18, 2006 1:44 UTC (Sat) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

The bandwidth saved is that the ISOs are not downloaded in the first place; the current version of each package needed is downloaded only once (except for those packages that are in the base install).

After a working system is configured, then of course the bandwidth needed to keep it current is just the same.

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 17, 2006 11:20 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

Network install has existed for every release of Fedora and many years before that for Red Hat Linux. Refer to the installation guide before complaining that the feature doesnt exist

http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/

Moreever a minimal installation only requires 1 CD and a desktop installation only requires 2 CD's

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 17, 2006 13:26 UTC (Fri) by hppnq (guest, #14462) [Link]

Please check Fedora's download instructions, under the header "Download the files you need" there are four ISOs.

Yes, it has been possible to install systems over a network for years, but as far as I know you will still have to download the images first, so you can set up a repository. ;-)

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 17, 2006 13:30 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

Incorrect. For example, FC4 has boot and rescue images in this folder

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/4...

The boot image is just 6 MB.

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 18, 2006 1:42 UTC (Sat) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

Sorry, the download instructions do not tell users how to do a minimal install; they tell everyone, clearly, to download 4 CD ISOs. Yes, I know that it is possible. But the bandwidth waste is because people follow directions.

Network install overdue

Posted Mar 18, 2006 10:34 UTC (Sat) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

The directions are specified in the installation guide. So if you follow directions, you already know of many Anaconda capabalities.