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Is Stallman communist?!Is Stallman communist?!Posted Dec 5, 2002 11:43 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774)In reply to: No future in proprietary software (ZDNet) by jimd Parent article: No future in proprietary software (ZDNet) > Stallman is an extremely bright individual but... so was Karl Marx, Hmm, Marx?! Well, of course, it depends on your definition of "extremely bright". What's that? The ability to attract stupid (and, unfortunately, not only) people by loud sentenses? Then Hitler was a bright person, too. And, BTW, he came to the power in a much more legal way than all comminists did. Or a person inventing an "all-in-one" theory which nobody's managed to confirm experimentally (or rather worse - every such an attempt confirms the theory is wrong)? As a maintainer of a world-acclaimed scientific web site, I periodically get lengthy emails containing universal theories explaining everything from superconductivity to existense of God. They definitely consider themselves "extremely bright individuals". The scientific community, however, considers them... well, most of the community don't consider them at all :-). Or, maybe, a person, whose children die because they have nothing to eat while their father's spending millions of his best millioner friend Engels (a perfect example of "exploiting bourgeoisie") on publishing "Manifesto" and similar junk? It always hits me hard when I see people drawing parallels between Stallman/FSF movement and Marx/communism. Only blind can do that. Compare: * Marx's theory miserably failed on each and every attempt to practically implement it. All commununist regimes crashed (well, Cuba is the last to be afloat yet; it joined the camp one of the latest, though), leaving millions of murdered citiziens and completely destroyed economy behind them. On the contrary, GNU projects successfully flourish and gain popularity with every year. * From the very moment of creation of every communist state people were trying to escape it. They flee, they run, they swim, they fly away on every possibility. Inspite of walls, riffles, and dogs. Risking their life. Visit the Berlin Wall Museum. It will impress you. And have you heard about a _single_ occasion of somebody trying to cross the wall in the opposite direction? On the opposite, nobody forces you to switch to GNU/Linux. And once you're in, you aren't locked. Just reboot. And having the choice, the population of free software users dramatically increases with every year. * Finally - which is, in fact, the core of dissimilarities - is the freedom. The freedom of FS versus the deathly struggle of the communist ideology against each and every human right. > and Marxist world is an ideal world that would be nice to live in Oh yes. Have you _ever_ read yourself the "Manifesto" and other "theoretical" works by Marx? "Abolition of property in land", "Abolition of all rights of inheritance", "Equal obligation of all to work", "Establishment of industrial armies", children labour armies, children are taken off their parents and taken care of by the state,... Yeah, an ideal world. You know about the perfect implementations of the "nice world"? The concentration camps. For a reason, though, all who experienced the "nice world" and managed to remain alive are pretty negative about it... > but it ain't the real world. You can get quite close, though. Give up your citizenship and immigrate to Cuba. Enjoy. Evgeny
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Is Stallman communist?! Posted Dec 5, 2002 13:30 UTC (Thu) by saulsnes (guest, #8387) [Link] Well, first thing about communism: A communist state never existed. Those states claiming to be communist, have nothing to do with communism as such - communism in itself does not involve supressing common citizen (that is actually straight against the original idea) and building a Berlin Wall around your country... What you're thinking of when saying communism, is Leninism and/or Stalinism.So, GNU and free software in general has a lot in common with the communist idea - that everyone is equal (in all "communist" states until now, some have been more equal than others...) and have the exact same rights. Communism does not fight democracy - just the opposite, actually. I don't know if it's because you're all American capitalists (the biggest smiley you've ever seen), but communism as such is not bad, but I'm afraid it's an utopia (not sure of the spelling), since everyone has failed to build a real communist state yet... Yours sincerely, // Simon Ask Ulsnes // Student, Denmark P.S. Hitler was very, very bright - you don't get to be dictator if you're not very, very bright!
Is Stallman communist?! Posted Dec 5, 2002 18:03 UTC (Thu) by Medievalist (guest, #8395) [Link] P.S. Hitler was very, very bright - you don't get to be dictator if you're not very, very bright!Don't be so sure! You can get to be the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth even if you are an incoherent moron, as our current administration amply demonstrates. They are also demonstrating how capitalists can destroy an economy every bit as effectively as communists, but that's another rant entirely.... But no, Stallman isn't a communist. I'd say he's a socialist if anything. And most definitely not a (lassez-faire) capitalist! --Charlie
Is Stallman communist?! Posted Dec 5, 2002 22:53 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (guest, #774) [Link] > A communist state never existed.Thanks God, not. But many came very close to it, unfortunately. > Those states claiming to be communist, have nothing to do with communism Really? And how are the common citizens supposed to be forced to go to the "industrial armies"? It is _exactly_ what communism is about. I repeat - read the original works by Marx. Don't rely upon mild interpretations your professors did. > What you're thinking of when saying communism, is Leninism and/or Stalinism. Leninism (and especially Stalinism) is an extremely soft version of the Marx's communism. During the years of Stalin's ruling, only ~ 10% of the state population were in the camps. Marx wanted _everyone_ to be in the "industrial armies". Marx wanted wives and children in common. Stalin didn't go that far. Etc. > So, GNU and free software in general has a lot in common with the ?! GNU is about _freedom_, not about equality. > (in all "communist" states until now, some have been more equal than others...) Only an idiot may believe that everyone are (or can be) equal. As in any other army, in the Marx's "industrial" armies, there must be sergants, officers, generals,... and since everyone wants to be a general (instead of working the whole day for no money at all), the generals would have to invent some ways to keep the positions for themselves. Of course, Marx understood it. You'll find in his works all the theoretical base of terror against the civil population. > Communism does not fight democracy - just the opposite, actually. I truly hope you'll understand one day how wrong you are... Or did you mean that democracy fights communism? Unfortunately, it doesn't; or does it badly... > I don't know if it's because you're all American capitalists (the The smiley not accepted. As a matter of the fact, I spent 24 years of my life in the USSR. > but communism as such is not bad, but I'm afraid it's an utopia (not sure Why don't you ask yourself - why?! Great, so there is a man who invented a theory, and everyone (and there have been a lot of efforts) trying to prove it experimentally ended up with millions of murdered innocent people who weren't asked whether they allowed the damned experimentalists to arrange the experiments on them. So how would you call this theoretist? A bright individual? Yes, he's as bright as devil is. > P.S. Hitler was very, very bright - you don't get to be dictator if Again, it depends on definition of "bright". If you wish to call _this_ "bright" - fine with me. So it's the same kind of brightness as Marx posessed. As to be _smart_ - 6 years were enough for Hitler to set the entire world against him; another 6 years - and he commited suicide. Decide for yourself... Regards, Evgeny PS. Sorry about off-topic; couldn't resist...
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