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TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
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TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 18, 2006 20:14 UTC (Wed) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link]
TurboCASH has to weigh the benefits of any new language against the potential for alienating its existing development team.Once they realize that programming in Pascal is like breathing out of one side of your nose, there shouldn't be much resistance.
Having a good accounting package for Linux would be a big plus, regardless of what language they decide to use.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 18, 2006 20:55 UTC (Wed) by lamikr (subscriber, #2289) [Link]
Well, I do not know how well freepascal or lazarus support the object pascaland component libraries (ui, database, server) originally developed for delphi.
If it does that well, then pascal is really good choise. I am nowadays mostly developing either with C or Java, but I earlier used write lot of code with delphi and I think that was really good development env and the code itself looked somehow cleaner than the C-code.
Mika
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 4:29 UTC (Thu) by dmantione (guest, #4640) [Link]
Very well... We are so compatible that in Delphi mode we have made ourcompiler even simulate a lot of Delphi bugs. The compiler can compile the
Delphi Quake 2 source without changes, for example. Or if you are talking
UI, Delphi's CLX library is compiled without changes and there is a VCL
clone, the Lazarus component library. In other words, porting Delphi code
has never been so easy. You do need to get rid of Win32 code
dependencies, and the Win32 API is one of the most serious vendor
lock-ins there is in the world.
Biggest problem for them is the Borland Database Engine. That one is
discontinued by Borland and only shipped with Delphi for legacy reasons.
They need to switch to SQ/Lite or to a real database, i.e. PostgreSQL.
Since that needs to be done anyway to ensure the future of the program.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 18, 2006 22:30 UTC (Wed) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
Low-level programming in Pascal is really hurtful, no doubt about it. Death by ord(). And those retarded syntax charts that everybody seemed to love drove me nuts.However, Pascal makes writing a big application out of interconnected modules a joy. Compilation units beat the snot out of C header files in almost every way (readability, maintainability, expressivity...) Unless you're parsing or bit-banging, Pascal really wasn't a bad choice at all. It's better than C in a number of ways.
Of course, choosing it for a new project today would be folly.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 18, 2006 23:39 UTC (Wed) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link]
And those retarded syntax charts that everybody seemed to love drove me nuts.Hey, I remember those! :-)
I guess that's why I abandoned Pascal for C early on. I could never remember more than about a third of Pascal's syntax, whereas C was easy to remember, mostly because there's a lot less of it.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 4:30 UTC (Thu) by dmantione (guest, #4640) [Link]
You have never touched a REAL Pascal compiler, haven't you. Ord isobsolete since Turbo Pascal 4.0, which was release "some" years ago.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 13:39 UTC (Thu) by whitemice (guest, #3748) [Link]
>Once they realize that programming in Pascal is like>breathing out of one side of your nose
Why? I've written apps in Pascal, and used lots of apps written in Pascal. It is (or was) a good language for developing applications; especially the OO varieties. Low level enough to not get in the way but high level enough to save the developer from grunt work like garbage collection.
Personally I do almost all my new development in C#, which was developed by a Pascal guy - and boy does it show. A nice language where you can get on with getting things done but without throwing away all the power (like you do in most varieties of basic).
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 18:33 UTC (Thu) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link]
Why?I found the language to be very rigid, to the point of frustration. But I haven't used Pascal since very early versions of Turbo Pascal, so I'm sure that it has improved since then.
I still have fond memories of Borland's "Turbo Vision" text-mode IDE. MS/DOS (prior to version 5) had a very primitive command shell, so working in an IDE was nice.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 0:29 UTC (Thu) by xoddam (subscriber, #2322) [Link]
The existing implementation depends on several separate proprietaryproducts which are unavailable on a free system: Windows, Delphi and the
Borland database backend. Moving to a fully-free implementation would
mean rewriting most of the software from scratch, whether or not the
development language remained Pascal:
"Which is why Copeman would be happy to outsource the initial development
work, if he can find a suitable partner."
The initial development work has already been done! It would be easy to
'embrace and extend' (in a good way :-) one of the existing free
accounting packages. I wonder if this has been considered? Working with
an existing free codebase and developer community (or forking an existing
program if the community is not compatible) might be more of a plunge
than merely switching OS, but why not?
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 1:36 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
Irregardless of what language they are using.. This sort of thing is something that is severely lacking in Linux. We have some apps for personal finance like GNUCash or whatnot, but no real accounting systems.
Nothing suitable for realy small to medium businesses and such. I beleive.. And this is something that can be a booming market for Linux.
We are now seeing things like TinyERP/CRM and other things like that then having a substantial accounting package to fall back on can end up being very benificial. At least that is the way it seems to me.
I could see a small business server from some company like Novel, that not only offers Email/Exchange-style functionality with file services like What you get from MS SBC, but a entire almost-turnkey store front solution with linux clients and linux servers. Do file services and email, but do store front applications, biling managment, customer relations, warehouse management, office productivity apps, and all sorts of stuff. Make a nice accounting package to keep the pencil pushers happy..
And with decent enough integration then small business could always turn to either the application designers or a software distributer for contractual support channels.
That sounds like it could offer a great deal of value for low bucks to small/medium businesses which seeem to be a very sore point for linux adoption rates lately.
Small-business accounting software
Posted Jan 19, 2006 2:04 UTC (Thu) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]
Nothing suitable for realy small to medium businesses and such.
We've been running our business on SQL-Ledger for about 5 years now.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 19, 2006 13:01 UTC (Thu) by Loesje (guest, #35319) [Link]
"Irregardless of what language they are using.. This sort of thing is something that is severely lacking in Linux. We have some apps for personal finance like GNUCash or whatnot, but no real accounting systems."
I think that one of the main reasons for that is that there is no real well known RAD-application like Delphi available for Linux.
Most of the Linux/gpl fans think that the only real language is C, or they use interpreted languages like Python.
But for developing applications like this or custom-made programs as you see much in larger companies, Delphi and nowadays Visual Studio are the standard development-platforms.
As long as free software developers stick to using developing-platforms which are good, but not that RAD-friendly, software like this will remain sparse.
But there is a Delphi/Visual Studio like development platform for Linux, and that is Lazarus. But no-one knows it, since it isn't C, so it can't be good. Or they refer to some pascal-bash-stories from the eighties/seventies...
Converting this application to Lazarus is the easiest way to go, and then you'll get an application that can work on OS/X, Linux and Windows natively, without installing all sort of other stuff.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 20, 2006 7:25 UTC (Fri) by rqosa (guest, #24136) [Link]
> there is no real well known RAD-application like Delphi available for Linux.
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 23, 2006 19:19 UTC (Mon) by etrusco (subscriber, #4227) [Link]
These are all nice and powerful IDEs and they have GUI designers, but IMHO they can't really compare to Delphi in terms of productiveness (I guess this is what RAD is all about, right?)
TurboCASH debates moving to Linux (NewsForge)
Posted Jan 26, 2006 5:11 UTC (Thu) by roelofs (subscriber, #2599) [Link]
I think that one of the main reasons for that is that there is no real well known RAD-application like Delphi available for Linux.Whatever happened to Kylix? (Hard to get much more Delphi-like than that...) Insufficient interest/heat-death of the universe/orphanware?
Greg
Don't forget the Quasar system.
Posted Jan 19, 2006 2:27 UTC (Thu) by csawtell (subscriber, #986) [Link]
<quote='http://librenix.com/?inode=2793'>The key word in this discussion is business. Quasar Accounting is a
business accounting package that offers all the standard features that you
would expect. The base package includes a general ledger module, accounts
payable, accounts receivable, sales, purchases, customer quotes, invoice
printing, check printing, international currency support, financial
statement report generation, and more. Additional modules are available to
expand Quasar's basic offering, such as inventory control and management,
handheld support, and multi-store point-of-sale systems.
</quote>
My comment: It's comprehensive and relatively complex, far too much so for
the average small business. As far as I can tell LinuxCanada who produced
it have not really 'got it' when it come to FLOSS. While there are some
email lists run out of LinuxCanada's web site, there is neither a #quasar
channel on freenode, nor a web-forum, any way I have yet to find it.
Gentoo have yet to pick it up for their Portage system. After all that's
said, it looks to me as if this would be a very good solution for a
trading company with a turnover in the low millions in a complicated GST
tax environment.
Don't forget the Quasar system.
Posted Jan 19, 2006 13:47 UTC (Thu) by whitemice (guest, #3748) [Link]
>As far as I can tell LinuxCanada who produced>it have not really 'got it' when it come to FLOSS. While there are
> some email lists run out of LinuxCanada's web site, there is neither
> a #quasar channel on freenode, nor a web-forum, any way I have yet to
> find it. Gentoo have yet to pick it up for their Portage system
!^@&%()@! I can't help but respond to this. Are you serious?? This is a business oriented package and you are complaining about (a) no free-node channel and (c) no Gentoo support?
(A) Professional Sys-Admins don't do support over IRC, I've met maybe 1 in my 12+ years.
(B) Businesses don't run Gentoo, Professional Sys-Admins stick with the core/mainstream stuff for core services [Oh boy, I can here the flame throwers spinning up now... but sorry guys, sometimes the truth hurts]
I'd love to see a serious review of LinuxCanada's offerings, one that includes a licensed/certified accountant. Unfortunately you are correct on the point that this package doesn't seem to have build up any steam (but neither a or b are significant contributors to that).
Don't forget the Quasar system.
Posted Jan 19, 2006 23:35 UTC (Thu) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]
> (B) Businesses don't run Gentoo, Professional> Sys-Admins stick with the core/mainstream
> stuff for core services
Actually it seems that some sysadmins do run Gentoo. You can find similar packages there. If a package is not there this is one indication for it not having a decent users community.
BTW: no trace for anything called "quasar" on Debian.