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GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 editionGNOME v. KDE, December 2005 editionPosted Dec 13, 2005 19:37 UTC (Tue) by jdub (subscriber, #27)In reply to: GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition by cventers Parent article: GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition
Perhaps some constructive feedback may actually get you where you want to go.
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GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 13, 2005 20:05 UTC (Tue) by cventers (subscriber, #31465) [Link] Well, my apologies for stepping over the line a bit with that last post.The airport kiosk remark is just the best describing remark I've come up with after tinkering with GNOME a few times in between spans on KDE over the years. (IIRC, my earliest time spent running around on an actual Linux *desktop* was Red Hat 5 or 6). My biggest criticism (is this constructive?) of GNOME is that every app and dialog feels like it was deliberately reduced from what it could have been. In some cases, this is genius and the dialog is simple / elegant / pretty. But way too often does it simply get in the way (Your file picker is a *big* example - why won't it let me sort by file type and why isn't it immediately evident that I can type a location?) If GNOME stood alone on the desktop market, I think it would be a great desktop. The fact is that it stands next to KDE, and even though I admire your looks and in *some* places the simplicity, any time I spend any length of time at all in GNOME I come away frustrated after X number of important things appear to have been intentionally excluded. (X is porportional to the amount of time I spend on GNOME)
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 13, 2005 20:42 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] I only learned about the `Ctrl-L to type' thing by following that mailing list thread. Affordances in GNOME are frequently absolutely *awful*, even in very widely-used common dialogs.
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 14, 2005 5:17 UTC (Wed) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link] In my opinion, Gnome shouldn't even have a file picker. Saving a document should just ask for a name and drop it in a default location. After that you can put it somewhere different with Nautilus. Opening a document shouldn't even get a dialog: open it from Nautilus or drag and drop it.
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 14, 2005 11:45 UTC (Wed) by csamuel (subscriber, #2624) [Link] Gah, do that and I'll give up helping the folks I know who use GNOME getthemselves out of trouble!
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 14, 2005 13:58 UTC (Wed) by mauvaisours (subscriber, #6130) [Link] Have you learned about this useful little thing called "Folders" that helps you organize what you do ?
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 15, 2005 22:25 UTC (Thu) by emj (guest, #14307) [Link] Well you are right in one sense, what should a user do in the root? You really should have everything in your home directory, perhaps in the "my Documents" folder. Or even better let people "tag" their files, and make it a database.
On bigger multiuser system it's even worse, have you ever tried to find the account of your friend John in the local /afs.. "Now was is /afs/fnord.se/homes/h/dk/sf/u2313n23? I can't really remmeber... "
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 27, 2005 23:05 UTC (Tue) by quintesse (subscriber, #14569) [Link] "why isn't it immediately evident that I can type a location?"
OMG!!! Do you know how many times I screamed at that stupid dialog because I thought I couldn't enter a location?
I positively hate hidden functionality and think all GUIs should be "discoverable" which means that you should be able to learn at least 99% of its functionality just by "looking around".
I find that most of the time for me Gnome either does not have the functionality I want or they have hidden it so well that even I as a very experienced user can't find it.
But it's not only Gnome, I love Firefox for example but I still miss some of the settings that you could find in the Mozilla preferences. I want a button "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" that show me all those option pages they removed! (And please, do NOT tell me about about:config!!)
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 13, 2005 23:16 UTC (Tue) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] One of the big things I have to do for customers is to turn off the spatial perspective in nautilus. People hate having to close 15 windows as they went searching for something in their directory tree structure.. but every time I and others mention it.. its that we arent understanding what we should do.. Here is a sample of what multiple customers have complained about:
Well I am just wanting to open up a document that I filed away in the way that I wanted, but I when I have finished opening up
I now have 4 windows I dont want to stay open and 2 that I do.. so I end up spending a lot of time closing stuff.
[And switching to 'classic' mode makes everything look like it is GNOME-0.8 and not as featured as the KDE desktop.]
I currently use GNOME, but I am coming this close to switching over to KDE even if it means being a third class citizen on Fedora.
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 14, 2005 6:55 UTC (Wed) by Mithrandir (subscriber, #3031) [Link] Agreed. At least my default desktop distro (Ubuntu) has made that change for me. :)
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 14, 2005 8:25 UTC (Wed) by heini (subscriber, #33614) [Link] One simple thing: You mentioned this doctor w/o computer knowledge.Imagine it was a german doctor, who simply would like to see his desktop in german language. I am a KDE user and when I start KDE the first time, a configuration wizard pops up where the very first thing I can choose is the language. Now on to Gnome (or XFCE). Whenever a new version is released, I try it out. I am not asked to choose my language. I spend 15 to 30 minutes to find out how to change it to german (other than setting some ENV vars, I know how to do that). I finally give up and stay with KDE, and so will the german doctor, he doesn't know how to set ENV vars.
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 14, 2005 20:12 UTC (Wed) by Los__D (subscriber, #15263) [Link] GDM, choose the language before you log in... Now that was hard, huh?
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 15, 2005 7:15 UTC (Thu) by heini (subscriber, #33614) [Link] You really think this is a good idea, don't you?No other display manager out there let's you choose the language, because it's simply stupid to put it there. 1) This locks Gnome users to using GDM, but what if they have no control over what display manager is used (because it's not their machine)? 2) You have to re-login to change the language. 3) What if you don't use any display manager at all? So this makes the situation even more worse, sorry.
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 15, 2005 9:48 UTC (Thu) by Los__D (subscriber, #15263) [Link] 1) I expected you wanted the whole package.2) New user = new login... Or are we schizo here? 3) If you don't use a display manager, you'd mostly be a shell user (Or one of those strange people who login with the text console and do a startx as the only command there), and used to LC_LANG if you want another language.
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 15, 2005 10:33 UTC (Thu) by dvdeug (subscriber, #10998) [Link] Changing the display manager is simply not possible for anyone using a multiuser system where the admin doesn't use Gnome. And it gets real tiring when every program expects that you're running the whole system; is it that unreasonable to try and choose the better program instead of the one from GNOME?
GNOME v. KDE, December 2005 edition Posted Dec 16, 2005 17:47 UTC (Fri) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] Surely you always have to re-login to change the language: a process may only alter its own environment, and anyway translated strings are usually loaded by an application at startup, and never altered.
I do agree that there should be some kind of regional settings option in the preferences menu that would allow one to change the value of LANG. LANGUAGE and the various LC_* variables that will be used the next time one logs in.
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