LGPL [LWN.net]

LGPL

Posted Nov 17, 2005 2:37 UTC (Thu) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989)
Parent article: Sony's rootkit: an update

It is my understanding that neither the GPL nor the LGPL have ever enjoyed the scrutiny of a no-kidding court case.
Could this be the inaugural bout? Go, FSF!

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LGPL

Posted Nov 17, 2005 10:03 UTC (Thu) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link]

I'm not sure about the LGPL, but the GPL certainly has. I forget the
name, but one of the NetFilter developers has been quite active in
asserting his rights over in Germany. The law there (where he lives)
places a tight timetable on bringing an action to court, something like
four weeks, so once he contacts a company and the clock starts ticking,
they have to decide rather fast (by US standards) whether they will comply
or fight. In a couple of cases, they haven't been fast enough to comply,
and the cases have gone to court. He's won real court injunctions in all
of them, I believe, which after the first couple, he could point to, and
has had less trouble getting the desired response in the time allowed.

He has been somewhat controversial, because the FSF tends toward a more
negotiated approach, which has generally been successful both in
resolution and in keeping it out of court, but can take years. This guy's
assertiveness gets faster results but with the risk of making political
enemies. Still, it's a technique that has been proven to work, and he
argues that the way the German system is setup, he has little choice if he
wants to retain his full range of enforcement rights, due to this clock
ticking thing.

In any case, its no longer true that the GPL hasn't been tested in court,
and IMO the two approaches tend to balance each other out to some extent.

LGPL, however, I haven't any idea.

Duncan

LGPL

Posted Nov 24, 2005 8:49 UTC (Thu) by Wol (guest, #4433) [Link]

Bear in mind, that the clock doesn't start ticking when the copyright holder notifies the infringer, it starts ticking when the copyright holder discovers the infringement.

So the netfilter guy HAS to contact the infringer, and threaten to sue them (and carry out that threat if necessary), or he loses his right to sue.

I think that on the few occasions it has gone to court, both sides have agreed to ask the judge "please toll this, we're still negotiating". ("toll"ing being "stopping the clock", thanks for the education, PJ.)

Cheers,
Wol

LGPL

Posted Nov 24, 2005 16:51 UTC (Thu) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link]

Thanks. I didn't remember precisely when the clock started. If it's at
discovery...

However, depending on how discovery is handled, despite what the law says,
it wouldn't /have/ to start at discovery. For the clock to matter at that
point, there'd have to be some evidence of when discovery happened. As
long as one does their investigation quietly and doesn't mention what
they've discovered right away, there's obviously some flexibility as to
when one was "certain" they had discovered something, not just suspicious
about a /possible/ violation.

As far as the court cases, I remember at least one and I believe two
actual preliminary injunctions. IIRC, the one was a case of win by
default, because the manufacturer hadn't responded. They had very little
presence in Germany anyway, IIRC, so it wasn't much to lose, but that set
the initial court precedent.

However, if you are a Groklaw regular, you may well know more about it
than I.

Duncan

LGPL

Posted Nov 17, 2005 19:09 UTC (Thu) by tcabot (subscriber, #6656) [Link]

There are two ways to look at this. The first way says "it's never been proven in court", and takes this to mean that the license is somehow weaker as a result. The second way (as explained by Eben Moglen at the FSF annual associate member meeting) is "everyone that's considered challenging it in court has backed down before it got that far" and takes this to mean that the license is so strong that there's no point in challenging it in court.

Remember that the GPL *grants* you rights that you wouldn't otherwise have under copyright law. So let's imagine that you go to court and have the GPL declared legally invalid. Congratulations, you've just sawed off the branch that you were sitting on because then you would have *no* right to distribute GPL'ed code.

LGPL

Posted Nov 20, 2005 2:34 UTC (Sun) by sweikart (guest, #4276) [Link]

Here's an article about the GPL in court:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050225223848129

-scott