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Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony...Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony...Posted Nov 15, 2005 18:48 UTC (Tue) by riel (guest, #3142)Parent article: Sony's rootkit: an update
Complaining makes little sense, since Sony does not appear to be sensitive to the many complaints that have been raised so far.
The easiest way to get their attention would probably be to stop buying Sony products, and to let them know in public places (like LWN). I know Sony won't be seeing any of my money any time soon.
Having said that, if they resolve the LGPL violation, and stop shipping rootkits, and release a really cool product, I might buy from them again. I suspect this may never happen though...
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Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 15, 2005 19:17 UTC (Tue) by danielpf (subscriber, #4723) [Link] For example they could sell a laptop powered by aCell processor with Linux preinstalled... Of course knowing their previous reputation about not so clean software, I would only buy such a laptop if all the included software were open sourced.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 15, 2005 20:24 UTC (Tue) by gte223j (guest, #6492) [Link]
http://emperorlinux.com/mfgr/sony/
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 16, 2005 13:35 UTC (Wed) by hazelsct (guest, #3659) [Link] And how sure are we that the BIOS never phones home over the entire lifetime of the laptop? And if it doesn't for current models, what's to say it won't in the future?
I personally will never buy anything from Sony, unless and until there is a total overhaul in corporate philosophy and practice away from both rootkits and proprietary formats, devices, etc. (i.e. no more minidisks or memory sticks, and their hardware should be capable of running an open BIOS). As Londo Mollari might say, "Dishonesty and arrogance in one neat package, how efficient of you."
Minidiscs are pitiful Posted Nov 16, 2005 13:57 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] Minidisc is the most stupid flop since DAT, at least in the consumer space; in the professional arena the format is alive thanks to other companies. I bought a professional model and got burned: badly thought out, poor battery life and is not so hot recording live audio. And they were supposed to replace walkmen! Meanwhile, Apple, Rio and even obscure outfits like Inovix are selling like crazy to fill the void.Not everything from Sony is so bad: e.g. miniDV seems to be a pretty open format, and consumer video cameras are OK. But in many other areas all there is left of Sony is the high pricing.
Minidiscs are pitiful Posted Nov 17, 2005 12:12 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Not everything from Sony is so bad: e.g. miniDV seems to be a pretty open format, and consumer video cameras are OK. miniDV was never SONY format. Digital8 was. And... as usual: it's gone. Now SONY is trying to show that it had miniDV in mind all along, but that's not the case. It does prove that SONY can develop pretty open devices - when pressured enough. By default SONY will develop something proprietary and closed...
Minidiscs are pitiful Posted Nov 18, 2005 2:09 UTC (Fri) by bk (guest, #25617) [Link] Minidisc is still alive in the rather small niche of (often clandestine) live recording. Most tapers use MD since it is relatively cheap, available and of decent quality despite the horrid ATRAC format.Very well-to-do tapers use DAT which has widespread use in professional recording. Unfortunately it costs an arm and a leg (although, realistically, not that much more expensive than the high end iPods...) and is somewhat obscure. People who can afford DAT often know people and can get a soundboard feed, the result is basically studio-quality live recordings. Smart frugal tapers use DAPs that have good built-in recording features (iPods unfortunately have crippled recording with the standard firmware), like (plug!) Rockbox running on an iRiver H1xx. Lossless, high quality recording up to the limits of the built-in 20 or 40GB hard drive.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 16, 2005 15:38 UTC (Wed) by gte223j (guest, #6492) [Link] "And how sure are we that the BIOS never phones home over the entire lifetime of the laptop? And if it doesn't for current models, what's to say it won't in the future?"
A bios that can form a packet and initialize the nic and send it down the wire.........sounds rational to me........
not to mention all of the net config stuff.........gateway and route.....and ARP......
and then not only would it have to do all of this...but it would have to gather good info.......hd mbr....or files.....and know how to mount a filesystem to send the really juicy data...........
granted it is possible.....but higly improbable......
paranoia cha cha cha........
--Brian
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 16, 2005 20:45 UTC (Wed) by deater (subscriber, #11746) [Link] Apparently you've never used PXE to boot Linux off a network. If you had you'd know the BIOS is perfectly capable of initializing the network card, running DHCP to get an IP address, and start making requests onto a network.
All of that before any Operating System is ever loaded.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 16, 2005 21:36 UTC (Wed) by gte223j (guest, #6492) [Link] You're right.......I haven't used PXE and it slipped my mind....my bad...........
however...... what if it is not a dhcp network??? how will it know how to get out............. and what about wireless......
the use case would be to phone home if there is a nic and there exists a dhcp server........
Again
"granted it is possible.....but highly improbable......"
I am not saying don't worry about it...but there comes a point when rationality is thrown out the window...............
--Brian
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 16, 2005 23:26 UTC (Wed) by clump (subscriber, #27801) [Link] PXE is just one way x86 machines can do "networking" in the BIOS. SPARC machines have had this functionality and much more in their Openprom layer for many years. Very old SparcStations even can boot over NFS.
Why x86 vendors have never thought to offer a useful preboot layer is beyond me. Sure you can buy expensive systems and add-ons that can possibly give you SPARC-like functionality. Not to badmouth PXE, but please. That is the best standard x86 has to do network booting? x86 clearly leads in performance for the money. But for managability, even a Mac Mini can toast most Dells.
That said, my point is that just because x86 *still* isn't very mature in the BIOS does not mean a vendor couldn't phone home. Since other vendors have had smart preboots for years means the technology exists. I wouldn't put it past Sony to do such a thing.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 15, 2005 19:38 UTC (Tue) by kh (subscriber, #19413) [Link] Instead of complaining or boycotting, I wish we could support some other standard - I wonder if some of the Free Software (and Free Culture) folks could approach the people developing the EVD format.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 15, 2005 20:15 UTC (Tue) by proski (subscriber, #104) [Link] Actually, the CD format is OK. The problems are the autorun feature implemented unsafely by Microsoft (the user is not informed that the software is going to be run) plus Sony's abuse of the customers' trust (users don't expect bad things from a well known company).Sure, having a data disc format unencumbered by Sony patents would punish them, but I don't see how regular LWN readers could help with that.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 16, 2005 14:21 UTC (Wed) by kh (subscriber, #19413) [Link] Sorry for not spelling it out better... the parent was speaking about boycotting Sony, and I read that as boycotting all of their products, not just their music discs. And where as a straight CD is not a problem format for Linux, DVD, and the upcoming HD-DVD or Blu-Ray I suspect will not be easily accessible in Linux. But perhaps the EVD backers would be easier to work with?
They're not CD's! Posted Nov 16, 2005 12:02 UTC (Wed) by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624) [Link] Remember that these silver discs are NOT CD's - they do not comply with the CD standard and so cannot have the logo. As this BBC article from the 4th November says, Philips are quite clear on this point: As far back as 2002, Philips representative Klaus Petri told Financial Times Deutschland that "those are silver discs with music data that resemble CDs, but aren't".
They're not CD's! Posted Nov 18, 2005 2:16 UTC (Fri) by bk (guest, #25617) [Link] The Sony EULA claims that the CDs are Red Book, meaning that they do conform to the CD standard as defined by Philips. I would be interested to see if they actually carry the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo.
If not, the EULA is demonstrably false and misleading (bad news for Sony), if they do then it looks like one of the big five has found a way around the standards issue (bad for the public).
They're not CD's! Posted Nov 20, 2005 9:20 UTC (Sun) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] I believe the other poster was thinking of some other copy prevention schemes pushed by the major record companies which use non-compliant discs. The owner of the CD mark even threatened to take away their right to use it. This scheme uses a Windows misfeature and a rootkit to do its work. There's no reason for it not to be a real CD.
Don't want a rootkit? Stop buying from Sony... Posted Nov 21, 2005 18:07 UTC (Mon) by NRArnot (subscriber, #3033) [Link] I can't agree strongly enough.
I will be buying nothing new from Sony in the forseeable future, unless there is no alternative manufacturer of a product that I really cannot do without.
I have a Sony laptop, a Sony DVD recorder, Sony in my car. When these need replacement, the replacements will not be made by Sony. And of course, I'll be buying as little Sony-branded music as I can.
Whatever Sony's paid spin-doctors say, the corporation won't actually listen to us until we, their former or potential customers, make a noticeable hole in the Sony corporation's bottom line. Personally, I'd like that hole to be so large that the corporation sinks -- but that's up to the rest of you.
If anyone from Sony reads this and wonders what they can do to mollify me, the answer is, probably nothing. Would you ever again buy food from a company that had been caught deliberately using urine as an undeclared ingredient? Would it make any difference that you hadn't actually eaten the polluted product?
Buy Sony last. Tell your friends.
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