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OSI procedures - a study in quotesOSI procedures - a study in quotesPosted Aug 25, 2005 3:13 UTC (Thu) by error27 (subscriber, #8346)Parent article: OSI procedures - a study in quotes
Wow. I was optomistic when Russ took over but not so much anymore.
Bruce posts a reasonable question. The obvious response is to post something diplomatic. Another response would be to be brutally honest about how ESR is still pissed from when PB called the cops on him. But instead of being diplomatic or honest, Russ's approach is to start posting wanker religious crap and making sarcastic comments about N+M>0.
He seems like a complete bastard actually... That counts for a lot to me even if it doesn't at bastiat.org.
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OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 25, 2005 9:06 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] Religious? Frederic Bastiat was an *economist*. (A particularly readable one with non-loony ideas.)
(And `faith-based reasoning' appears to be code for `circular reasoning'.)
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 25, 2005 21:55 UTC (Thu) by ronaldcole (guest, #1462) [Link] Russ needs to re-read Bastiat, me-thinks. Socialism treats everyone equally, but Bastiat was arguing against Socialism. Bastiat writes that the purpose of law is to prevent injustice from reigning (see the section "Law Is a Negative Concept") and not, as Russ incorrectly paraphrased, to treat everyone equally.
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Sep 1, 2005 19:02 UTC (Thu) by zakaelri (guest, #17928) [Link] Of course, one of the problems with existence is that everything eventually comes down to faith... Whether it is faith in God, Self, Science, or whatever. Faith is how people operate.
I agree with Perens on this matter... The fact that he created the OSI guidelines implies that he would know best what their intent was. While nothing should be judged soley on intent, the motivations and ideas behind the creation of something -- the mindset or spirit of the author, if you will -- does provide healthy insight. It is for this reason that I, when creating various charters (for school activities), have always included an addendum that expresses the rhyme behind the reason.
I hope that by showing people what was already attempted, they can use that as a foundation for what they have done. Of course, since Perens is still available, it would make sense for him to join in the conversation.
Of course, it seems that Bruce's opinion matters just about as much as mine ;)
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 25, 2005 18:12 UTC (Thu) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link] I'm missing who PB is, and what's this about calling the cops on ESR?What did I miss?
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 25, 2005 21:36 UTC (Thu) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] PB is Bruce Perens. There was a story that ESR threatened to shoot him. When ESR says he'll shoot you, he's not joking, even if he's smiling. So Bruce reported the threat to the police. ESR got all flustered and offended about it; probably he thought threatening to shoot BP expressing respect. Anyway that's how the story goes.
I don't know if or how often ESR still threatens people with his gun, but if he threatens you, do report it.
Bruce vs ESR Posted Aug 26, 2005 1:23 UTC (Fri) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link] Thanks. From there I was able to Google for it.Here's Bruce's initial public message on the topic, though the context seems to be OSI's controversial endorsement of Apple's code license. Not to bring back a six-year-old controversy, but I notice that the threat was (a) over email, and (b) did not explicitly mention shooting Bruce. On the other hand, I still think it was over the top and I don't think Bruce was unreasonable in his reaction. OSI's relevance to the community has only dimmed since then.
Bruce vs ESR Posted Sep 9, 2005 19:48 UTC (Fri) by rickmoen (subscriber, #6943) [Link] (Disclosure: I am on good terms with both of the people in question -- and hope to remain that way.) First and foremost, the private e-mail about which Bruce (and you, rfunk) have, rather questionably, proclaimed that its author intended as a "threat" (impliedly, of violence) should not have been a matter for public mailing lists and Web sites, at all. Bruce, if you honestly believed it to be such, reporting it to your police department was appropriate — but posting it to debian-devel and elsewhere most certainly was not. One can reasonably posit a passive-aggressive attempt at character assassination in your reaction. So: Bruce (and apologies to you and Eric both, for this being less than timely), simmer down, and, if you must fight, fight fair: You know that's no way to behave. As it is, the main lesson you've given people is "Don't trust Bruce with unguarded comments in private e-mail." Is that what you really want to be known for? Please understand that I say this with nothing but friendly intent. Eric: Although any reasonable and minimally charitable reader would understand that the natural way an author and essayist will tend to "make you regret" things is with the pen rather than the sword (or boomstick or aikido punch), and that you do not have any history of beating people up just because you're frustrated and annoyed with them, a moment's contemplation will remind you that your "tribe" is unfortunately riddled with scurrilous gossips and trolls possessed of little or no moral scruple, not to mention those inclined to post first and switch on their brains later. Nathan (ncm): I assume you've switched your brain back on, by now. ;-) Rick Moen
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 25, 2005 18:42 UTC (Thu) by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698) [Link] I was optomistic when Russ took over but not so much anymore.Russ Nelson was only briefly the president of OSI. He's still on the board, but Michael Tiemann is the President.
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 26, 2005 0:06 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link] >making sarcastic comments about N+M>0I didn't read anything sarcastic in the N+M. I think he's only trying to make the point of how uncomplicated the process of rejecting Bruce Perens was. There was probably some discussion we didn't see wherein someone suggested there was more to it. Sarcasm is saying the opposite of what you believe and exaggerating it to show how it's ridiculous. But I'm sure Russ really believes it was an N+M decision just as he said.
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 26, 2005 3:19 UTC (Fri) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] If it was not sarcastic then it was very stupid. Here's an illustration:
Five people are present, four of them are chosen.
The non-chosen person is told nothing they don't already know (four of the five were chosen). What they asked about (the basis for choosing one over another) is not explained in the slightest by the answer.
OSI procedures - a study in quotes Posted Aug 26, 2005 6:22 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link] I think you're right -- I read more into the statement than is there. I assumed he was talking about an ordering in time -- i.e. Bruce applied after the N positions were already filled. But it doesn't say that explicitly.
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