GTK+ 2.8.0 released [LWN.net]

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 0:31 UTC (Mon) by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
In reply to: GTK+ 2.8.0 released by Zarathustra
Parent article: GTK+ 2.8.0 released

> It's that so hard to understand?

In fact, yes, it is. Who defines "Unix rules"? Why exactly should they be followed (apart to please you) in GTK? Do all applications on "Unix" (whatever that means) follow these rules? I was under the impression that Unix apps did pretty much whatever they wanted most of the time. That's why they created such an incoherent mess.

Yes, sure, with the introduction of GTK there is "yet another" set of rules to follow. Well, at least there is Gnome that is trying to introduce a "complete" desktop that follows the same rules all the time. It is not finished, sure, so we have to suffer through inconsitencies when other apps are fired up. And I'm pretty sure that GTK exists and is being developed primarily to fit into Gnome, not Unix. That's why the "Unix rules" are not a very high priority on the GTK "feature" list.

Again, if you want "Unix rules", stick to Unix applications. Don't run GTK, Gnome or whatever other applications that annoy you. Or better, patch your own GTK with "Unix rules" and enjoy.

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GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 7:08 UTC (Mon) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link]

Actually, GTK was written for GIMP, before GNOME existed.

But I get the picture. There is no room for new (or old in this case) ideas
in GNOME. I'm not welcome, and that's just fine.

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 12:06 UTC (Mon) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> Actually, GTK was written for GIMP, before GNOME existed.

As if that matters now. THE most important thing written in GTK is Gnome. Therefore, whatever happens with Gnome affects GTK.

> But I get the picture. There is no room for new (or old in this case) ideas in GNOME. I'm not welcome, and that's just fine.

Hey, if that's what you think the defaults are all about, that's OK. There is no requirement to use GTK or Gnome and as far as I know nobody is forced to used it because it is a "monopoly" like one other platform we know. So, feel free to be not welcome, welcome, not use it or use it.

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 12:49 UTC (Mon) by Arker (guest, #14205) [Link]

And GNOME is supposed to be the GNU Network Object Model Environment.

Explicitly called into being as part of the GNU/OS.

And explicitly hell-bent, to judge from your post (and I'll say now it's not at all clear you can speak for the project here, but the project has made decisions in the past very consistent with what you're saying, so it fits) on alienating anyone that happens to like the keystrokes, conventions, and working models of the GNU/OS as it existed before GNOME. We aren't wanted or needed in your world, obviously.

Doesn't make much sense to me. Perhaps if that is really the official policy of the project, it should change its name?

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 14:14 UTC (Mon) by elanthis (subscriber, #6227) [Link]

GNU's Not UNIX. :P

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 19:57 UTC (Mon) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

Let me assure you, I cannot speak for the project at all as I haven't written a single line of Gnome code. So, all the comments are my own personal views and not those of the Gnome Foundation.

I think you are reading too much into this. I used Gnome since 1.x and when things started changing (i.e. being simplified), I protested that I miss this or that. The truth is that I don't. I was just used to doing things that way and they are just fine they way they are now.

I was just telling Ross that he's completely free to feel the way he does. It is officially OK. I personally got over it, some people can't because they probably really need those things, which is OK too. But, direction of GTK is dictated by GTK developers, many of which are Gnome folks these days. Nothing "hell-bent" about that, just reality.

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 15, 2005 17:47 UTC (Mon) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link]

Sadly all the modern Mozilla/Firefox type browsers use GTK exclusively. If
not for that I wouldn't really care because the only other GTK apps I
regularly use are XMMS and GIMP. I don't do much text entry in either so
they don't bother me. I don't like using KDE apps because they start all
kinds of background daemons and do strange things to the terminal they
started from. I'm open to trying other browsers though.

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 16, 2005 0:30 UTC (Tue) by njhurst (guest, #6022) [Link]

Yep, and XMMS shows how a good Unix gui should work! I particularly love the subtle interplay between the gtk1 preferences dialog and file window, and the subtle precisely detailed main interface that is configurable and can even pixel double for those times when you can't steer your mouse down to the single pixel buttons.

GTK+ 2.8.0 released

Posted Aug 16, 2005 1:57 UTC (Tue) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link]

XMMS works for me. I use it becuase is very configurable and has most of
the commonly used controls visible in a small footprint. I'm not sure if
it is a great example of a Unix-like program, but at least it's no emacs or
Netscape.

I do have one complaint, which is that it likes to move windows around by
itself, placing transients at the extents of the root window (not the
visible part of the root window), and that window movement should be
performed modulo the size of the screen (which interacts strangely with
transients outside of the upper left portion of the desktop.

Other programs like xv which have nothing to do with GTK have similar
problems, and other GTK apps don't seem to do this so I think it's an
application problem and not a library bug.

It would be nice to be able to resize the program too (to view longer track
names or take allow adjustment of the footprint in a more continuous form
than mini, normal, double-sized).