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OSDL announces Patent Commons Project
Here is the announcement for OSDL's "patent commons" project. Details are scarce, but it looks like a way for individual developers to contribute patents to a pool where they would be licensed for use in free software - and, presumably, as a defensive weapon in the case of a patent-based attack on free software. The PR includes endorsements from Linus Torvalds and Eben Moglen.
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OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 9, 2005 23:53 UTC (Tue) by TwoTimeGrime (guest, #11688) [Link] Someone has already been working on this for years but getting patent holders on board hasn't been successful. http://www.openpatents.org/
OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 10, 2005 0:10 UTC (Wed) by lutchann (subscriber, #8872) [Link] This might actually be helpful if OSDL requires the donors to issue a real nonrevocable license to all open-source projects for each of the contributed patents. This "we don't have any immediate plans to assert our patents" line that Nokia and others have been giving out is pretty useless.
OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 10, 2005 0:18 UTC (Wed) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] For a patent grant to be any good to ODSL, it has to cover all GPL programs: agreement to a narrower grant (e.g. "just for the Linux kernel") would probably violate the GPL.But a grant that covers non-copylefted software as well might be problematic. If the grant says you can freely exercise the patent as long as you make all the source available, it effectively slaps a copyleft on BSD code (you either make all the source available or the patent-holder can go after you). If it doesn't impose such a requirement, it lets proprietary software developers practice the patent (they just code up a small free software implementation, then link it into a large proprietary app), so the patent-holder might as well put the patent in the public domain. That might be a good thing, but the patent-holder might want some leverage against the Microsofts of the world.
OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 10, 2005 3:20 UTC (Wed) by dwheeler (guest, #1216) [Link] I suppose it depends on how you define "problematic".You could certainly have a patent, and then grant use to anyone as long as the entire program is an "open source software program (as defined by OSI) or Free Software program (as defined by FSF)". A BSD program that used the patented idea would still be a BSD program, and could be widely shared... but it couldn't become proprietary in software patent countries. Yes, this would in essence cause that program to behave legally like a GPL'ed program in those countries where software patents are legal and a patent covers the work, as you noted. But this is no different than what happens now with patents. If you release a BSD program, and I patent something your program uses, then you can't release the BSD program AT ALL unless I grant you rights (or you fight an expensive legal battle). A patent can turn BSD code into ILLEGAL code, not just GPL'ed code. At least if the patent is opened to "open source software programs", you can release and use the code under some conditions. Oh, and I didn't make a mistake at the beginning of the sentence; someone can easily patent your ideas AFTER you release them, because someone competent in software is unlikely to want to work at the patent office. It's not hard to patent someone else's idea after you hear about it, then sue them, and the courts mistakenly assume that a patent must be valid because it was granted. It'll cost you millions to fight the patent; are you likely to win? You really can't help but have all sorts of weird situations like this, as long as software patents are permitted at all. The problem is that BSD is a copyright license, not a patent license; you can't grant the use of a third party's patent without their permission. And notice that this only occurs where software patents are permitted; since they're illegal in most countries, the BSD would still hold sway in those countries. Patents may have the side-effect of eliminating the MIT and BSD licenses long term in software patent granting countries. In a world were the proprietary people are patenting the wheel, and the open source software developers (the majority of whom support the GPL) counter-patent all they can but only for "open source software" projects, it may not be possible to write code that doesn't step on either set of minefields.
OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 14, 2005 4:23 UTC (Sun) by pimlott (guest, #1535) [Link] Yes, this would in essence cause that program to behave legally like a GPL'ed program in those countries where software patents are legal and a patent covers the work, as you noted. Not quite: Most patent holders are happy to grant you a license to use their patent in a non-free program for a fee. You cannot buy a separate license from most GPL licensors. Patents may have the side-effect of eliminating the MIT and BSD licenses long term in software patent granting countries. I don't see any evidence for that. The BSD model is only threatened if a) lots of patents are freely licensed for GPL code only, and the patent holders attack BSD licensors; or 2) lots of patents are licensed for free software only (that is, you can't buy a license for proprietary code), and the patent holders attack proprietary software publishers. Both scenarios are unlikely.
Suggestion: Monkey wrench Posted Aug 10, 2005 2:10 UTC (Wed) by Richard_J_Neill (subscriber, #23093) [Link] To make it most effective, I think it needs to be larger in scope.I propose:
Anyone who has a patent (including Free Software developers) can put it into the commons. Anyone who has an idea which might be patentable can also put the idea into the commons (and OSDL will apply for the patent, i.e. sort out the legal, admin, and finance).
Then, those patents can be used by anyone. I.e. if BadCompany B asserts any of B's patents in any lawsuit (except a patent defense countersuit) against innocent victim V, then anyone (whether V, or a third party, T) can use any of the patents in the pool to sue B.
The aim would be to build a large commons, and monkey-wrench the entire patent system into non-workability. It should become impossible to assert any patent (software or otherwise), except for defensive purposes. We might even make allies of the "IP predators", since the role of T could be quite lucrative....
Suggestion: Monkey wrench Posted Aug 10, 2005 10:18 UTC (Wed) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] Even more so, anybody contributing patents shouldn't be allowed to claim immunity -- if they enforce some other patent they didn't contribute against a free-software project or legitimate user thereof, they should lose the right to use any patents in the pool (except of course their own), and might be sued by V or T.
Suggestion: Monkey wrench Posted Aug 10, 2005 12:18 UTC (Wed) by penguinroar (guest, #14460) [Link] I agree totally about being able to give ideas away to OSDL patent commons. There are plenty of us out here who have good ideas wich could be patented but not money nor any real incentive to take a patent on them.
It would be better if software patents would disappear but its not likely with all the big companies sitting on so many of them.
Suggestion: Monkey wrench Posted Aug 10, 2005 15:18 UTC (Wed) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989) [Link] Wasn't the patent system intended to protect and encourage innovation?If what you say is true (and I'll venture it is), then the system has become its antithesis.
Suggestion: Monkey wrench Posted Aug 10, 2005 12:48 UTC (Wed) by zotz (guest, #26117) [Link] With a slight change to the law, we could also forgoe the expense of getting patents for every idea:
Prior art search must also search this database and the database is evidence of prior art. I think I have posted this idea for years using the term "idea bank" but I could be mistaken, it has certainly been in my notes for years.
Having some "pool owned" patents (especially fundamental ones) might be a nice lever as well though.
all the best,
drew
OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 10, 2005 15:10 UTC (Wed) by huffd (guest, #10382) [Link] I'm curious how this would work. I've noticed how the rights to several GPL'ed packages have been "transferred" to corporations. My most recent discovery was gtoaster. Now I'm wondering how if code were contributed to this type of organization how it would affect the GPL status or be given it's own legal standing? Also if it would prevent code from disappearing under a private label?
OSDL announces Patent Commons Project Posted Aug 11, 2005 4:48 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] The copyright owners can do what they wish with the code. If you're the only developer of a GPLed program, you own the copyright, which means you can take it proprietary, or sell it to someone who then does this.People who contribute code to the FSF get a signed contract, binding on the FSF, that obligates the FSF to keep the code free.
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