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An OLS wrapup

The seventh annual Ottawa Linux Symposium has come to an end. Your editor, who has attended six of the seven OLS events, finds the conference in good [Ottawa art shot] health. OLS was larger this year - some 700 people - but it has handled its growth well. OLS remains one of the premier Linux development gatherings worldwide.

A look at the schedule reveals some clear themes for this event. Virtualization is obviously at the top of the list for many OLS attendees; the largest room was dedicated to the topic for a full day. This was perhaps the most kernel-oriented schedule yet from an already kernel-dominated event; there was hardly enough non-kernel content to fill even a single track. Those who are interested in the user space side of free software may find themselves drifting toward other events; but kernel people will find plenty of interest at OLS.

OLS is an increasingly professional event; the proportion of students and part-time hackers attending the event appears to have dropped over the years. Registration fees can be as high as C$750. A surprising number of the attendees are mostly concerned with what their customers want from Linux; these are people who are making their living in a way which at least involves Linux and free software.

As always, there was no trade show floor at OLS; nobody is trying to sell anything to the attendees. OLS is very much about technology and development communities, and little about hype.

Your editor, rather than trying to provide exhaustive coverage of the event, attended some of the more interesting sessions. The resulting articles have been posted over the last week; for convenience, they are:

  • A challenge for developers. Jim Gettys thinks that free software developers have to get past the "mantra of one," build the multiuser, cooperative systems of the future, and take the lead for the next generation of computing.

  • Linux and trusted computing. IBM engineers Emily Ratliff and Tom Lendacky discuss the current state of Linux support for the "trusted platform module" (TPM) chip and some of the good things that it can do for us. Trusted computing does not have to be an evil thing.

  • Xen and UML. Lead developers from the two most prominent Linux paravirtualization projects discuss where those projects are and what's coming next.

There was much more than the above at OLS this year; your editor, in particular, appreciated Keith Packard's discussion of the TWIN window system (designed for very small devices), Michael Austin Halcrow's description of the eCryptfs filesystem (hopefully to be written up in the future), Rusty Russell's discussion of nfsim, and Pat Mochel's sysfs talk. The Wednesday reception featured talks by Doug Fisher of Intel (who nearly got booed off the stage when it became clear that his talk was being run from a Windows system) and Art Cannon from IBM. Art's talk, a buzzword-loaded presentation on how to talk to business people about open source, was well received but hard to follow due to the poor acoustics and high noise level in the room. If you gather several hundred people (many of whom have not seen each other over the past year) into a room and give them all the beer they want, it can be hard to get them to sit down, be quiet, and listen to somebody talk about business stuff.

[Dave Jones and Andrew Morton] Dave Jones's ending keynote, instead, got everybody's full attention. Dave, who, among other things, is the current maintainer of Red Hat's kernels, is concerned with the number of regressions and other bugs seen in recent kernels. The quality of our kernels, says Dave, is going down as a result of regressions, and driver regressions in particular.

There's a lot of reasons for the problems. They date back, perhaps, to the adoption of BitKeeper. With BK, Linus could quickly pull in a large set of patches from a subsystem maintainer without really looking at them all. So BitKeeper increased the velocity of patches through the system, with some cost as to the quality. The real problem, however, is one of testing. The only way to really find kernel bugs is to have the kernel tested by a wide variety of users. This is particularly true for driver bugs; nobody, not even the driver maintainer, can possibly have all of the hardware needed to perform even remotely comprehensive testing. It takes a large community of users to do that.

When testing does happen, we need to make it easier for users to report bugs. Requiring a user to create a BugZilla account and fill in vast amounts of information for a (possibly) tiny bug is counterproductive; many bug reporters will simply give up and go away. Bug reporting should be a simple and quick operation.

There are, in any case, quite a few challenges involved in dealing with bug reporters; this was Dave's opportunity to complain a little about the frustrations of his job. Bug reporters tend to always see their bug as the most important one (so, he says, bug reporting systems should not allow reporters to set the severity of the bug); they will continue to mess with the system while others are trying to fix the bug, making confirmation of fixes difficult; some of them file a bug and disappear, not responding to requests for important information; they will lie about the configuration of their systems (and the presence of binary-only modules in particular); and so on. The receiving end of a major distribution's bug tracking system can be a difficult place to be.

The question of the proper place to report bugs came up. Many bugs seen by end users are really bugs in the upstream package, not in a particular distribution's version of it. Those bugs should be reported to the real, upstream maintainer. Some distributions (Debian, for example) see this reporting as their responsibility; others would like bug reporters to go directly upstream. Dave, in particular, notes that quite a few kernel bugs show up only in the Red Hat BugZilla system; they never make it to the (not universally used) kernel BugZilla. How many other distributors, he wonders, have kernel bugs sitting in their bug trackers which should really be reported to the community? In the future, it would be nice if BugZilla installations could talk to each other so that bugs could be forwarded to the right place; however, each BugZilla evidently has its own schema, making that sort of communication difficult.

Dave noted that the kernel has gotten significantly more complicated over the time he has been working on it. Coming up to speed and really understanding what is happening inside the kernel is a challenging task. Kernel developers need to recognize this and take advantage of all the techniques and tools which are available to them to produce better releases.

Next year's keynote speaker will be Greg Kroah-Hartman.

The final event of OLS is the infamous Black Thorn party; it is the ideal way to unwind after an intense week of conferencing. The Black Thorn is getting a little small, however; one of the OLS organizers was asking people to put their backpacks aside so there would be room for everybody to stand. If OLS continues to grow, the final event may have to happen somewhere else.


(Log in to post comments)

Regarding debugging bugs in developer Kernels

Posted Jul 28, 2005 6:15 UTC (Thu) by kune (guest, #172) [Link]

A few years ago I used to install development kernels on my machines. However a more demanding job and a number of other priorities changed that. I'm still operating three Linux machines using Suse, however I don't have the time to invest into substituting the vendor kernels by the development kernels. The same can be said in user space, except the gcc compiler, which I'm interested in because of my tiny pet project. However the compiler is quite easy to change and there are not a lot of dependencies. One can even have two versions compilers in parallel, without creating a lot of hassle.

It would be nice if vendors would allow me to install the development kernel in a package and get the updates via standard update mechanisms. There will be some additional effort by the vendors, however the support should be easy: users not understanding the concept of a development kernel could always go back to standard. It might even so, that this feature might be available, but it doesn't appear to be widely published.

Don't tell me, that I have to enter simply a dozen commands to do it and that I could script it. Done this, have been there, it's not what I'm proposing here.

I would run those kernels on two of my three machines.

Regarding debugging bugs in developer Kernels

Posted Jul 28, 2005 7:57 UTC (Thu) by hingo (guest, #14792) [Link]

Actually, I could imagine volunteers packing development kernels into a nice rpm and uploading it to a contribs dir or similar. And keeping them up to date. Then, as you said, more busy people could just run and update the development kernels through the normal SUSE (or other distro) updating mechanisms.

That's actually a good idea

Posted Jul 28, 2005 9:11 UTC (Thu) by error27 (subscriber, #8346) [Link]

I've been following the RedHat kernel bugs recently* and I agree that that's a good idea. This is more true for Fedora than for RHEL because RHEL doesn't follow the stock kernel closely. If there is an easy to reproduce kernel bug, users often test both the smp and up kernels. If they tested the stock kernel at the same time that would be good.

Users don't like to test the stock kernel because:
1) It's complicated to compile
2) It takes a long time to compile
3) They got burned by redhat 9 where using a stock kernel broke stuff.

With Fedora the distro kernel is pretty close to the stock kernel so #3 isn't an issue, and a precompiled rpm would fix #1 and #2.

I think the some of the recent CDROM bugs (fixed now) may have been RedHat specific. There have been a few exec shield bugs and those are RedHat specific as well. If users tested a stock kernel right away debugging those would be faster.

Also it would be cool if Fedora did nightly builds of the new kernel the same way that mozilla does nightly builds. I guess I could set that up myself if I had a website and a Fedora system to compile stuff on...

* To read the Redhat kernel bug reports: Create a bugzilla login. Go to your email preferences sellect the "user to watch" as kernel-maint@redhat.com.

SuSE already produceds rpms!

Posted Aug 7, 2005 19:28 UTC (Sun) by niner (subscriber, #26151) [Link]

Here:
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/people/mantel/kotd
you'll find daily rpms of current kernels,both branches for all distribution versions and current HEAD (e.g. 2.6.13-rc5). Should be really easy to install and even script installing daily.

An OLS wrapup

Posted Jul 28, 2005 8:21 UTC (Thu) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

Dave, who, among other things, is the current maintainer of Red Hat's kernels [...]
Ehr? Are you saying that a single guy is responsible for maintaining all of Red Hat's kernels? Besides other things? I suppose he gets help from others, right?

An OLS wrapup

Posted Jul 28, 2005 10:07 UTC (Thu) by nigelm (subscriber, #622) [Link]

Ehr? Are you saying that a single guy is responsible for maintaining all of Red Hat's kernels? Besides other things? I suppose he gets help from others, right?

Actually Dave is one of the initial products of the Welsh Gnome Cloning Project.

You may remember a while back that Linus said:-

Note that nobody reads every post in linux-kernel. In fact, nobody who expects to have time left over to actually do any real kernel work will read even half. Except Alan Cox, but he's actually not human, but about a thousand gnomes working in under-ground caves in Swansea. None of the individual gnomes read all the postings either, they just work together really well. (see Wikiquote)

Well Dave is a smaller collective of the Swansea Gnomes that broke away from the main Alan Cox collection. If you have seen Dave you will realise that this sure is the case.

An OLS wrapup

Posted Jul 28, 2005 13:36 UTC (Thu) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

If you have seen Dave you will realise that this sure is the case.

Don't know about the gnomes. In the picture above (Dave Jones and Andrew Morton) he looks a bit elvish, though.

An OLS wrapup

Posted Jul 28, 2005 20:06 UTC (Thu) by davej (subscriber, #354) [Link]

a small army of monkeys also help me. Oh, and various other Red Hat kernel hackers, but mostly those guys get their stuff upstream fast enough that my job is just packaging an upstream tarball into an rpm, and dealing with the bugzilla fallout.

Kernel-dominated event

Posted Jul 28, 2005 19:46 UTC (Thu) by willy (subscriber, #9762) [Link]

The OLS paper committee would love to make the conference somewhat less kernel-heavy. Unfortunately, we can only pick and choose between the papers we are sent, and people just aren't sending us papers that deal with GCC, Apache, PHP or Python (for example). Maybe it's because these people already have enough conferences which are more specific to their own groups, maybe it's because Kernel Summit is held adjacent to OLS each year, or maybe because everyone thinks that OLS is only for kernel talks.

I give papers an extra point or two just for not being about the kernel when we're deciding which papers to accept or reject. So if you're itching to give a talk on something and it's appropriately hardcore development for OLS, please submit it. We'd love to have a third of the talks on non-kernel subjects.

An OLS wrapup

Posted Jul 29, 2005 15:12 UTC (Fri) by lacostej (guest, #2760) [Link]

Here's an idea.

1 A small client app that reports your machine hardware to a central place. I've seen that in ubuntu.

2 A way for people to really easily test stock kernels. That could be a way for distributions to publish nightly live small ISOs suitable for CD/USB devices. The distro could contain a battery of tests and a way to report test results.

I wouldn't mind booting a such a thing once a week on my desktops.

When Xen comes to maturity, maybe will it even be possible to test kernels without rebooting.

Video of Keith Packard's presentation on TWIN

Posted Aug 16, 2005 17:22 UTC (Tue) by michaelo (subscriber, #23907) [Link]

Like Jon, I liked Keith Packard's presentation on TWIN, a tiny window system with just a 100KB RAM budget. You can find the video I shot on http://free-electrons.com/community/videos/conferences.

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