Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu [LWN.net]

From:		"Benj. Mako Hill" <mako-AT-canonical.com>
To:		ubuntu-devel-AT-lists.ubuntu.com
Subject:		Experimental/Rough UserLinux Packages
Date:		Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:06:20 -0500
Archive-link:		Article, Thread

Greetings,

I've put together some experimental userlinux metapackages that will
install on Ubuntu (hoary only).

Metapackages which means all they do is install other
packages. Userlinux doesn't provide its users with seperate packages
of its own -- it uses whatever is in Debian. You can do now install
these on on Ubuntu and get a sort of Ubuntu-flavored Userlinux. :)

You can get them by adding this line to your /etc/apt/sources.list and
then updating and installing away:

  deb http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/userlinux hoary main

I've had to clean these up and remove or change a few things to get
them to install on either Hoary on even in Debian sid (where they
claimed they worked). There is a lot more help they could get but I
wanted to minimze the delta between these and upstream so I've left a
number of things that are I think could be improved. I'll work with
upstream authors to help rectify most things.

For no good reason that I can tell, the meta-packages are i386
specific. I want fix this in all of them but I do not have source for
two metapackages (userlinux-server-base or userlinux-artwork) and
cannot rebuild these myself or provide source. I have emailed the
userlinux folks to see if I can get full source for their packages.

The metapackages that are available include:

  userlinux-artwork
  userlinux-base
  userlinux-desktop-base
  userlinux-dev
  userlinux-enterprise-desktop
  userlinux-im-server
  userlinux-mail-server
  userlinux-pbx-server
  userlinux-server-base
  userlinux-server-gui
  userlinux-server
  userlinux-soho-desktop
  userlinux-web-server

I have not bothered to work with the userlinux installer package since
we already have our own installer that we like a bit. :) You will
definitely need universe turned on to use these packages. I haven't
tested installing each of them on a fresh install but I have tested to
see that each one is installable.

Regards,
Mako


-- 
Benjamin Mako Hill
mako@canonical.com

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Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu

Posted Mar 29, 2005 16:18 UTC (Tue) by frazier (subscriber, #3060) [Link]

We at UserLinux to my knowledge were never contacted about this (we may have been though, I'll check before I go jumping to conclusions).

This use of our name and logo is in violation of the UserLinux Mark Protection Policy:
http://www.userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mark_Protection_...

Stay tuned for further details.

-Brock Frazier
UserLinux Project

Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu

Posted Apr 1, 2005 8:12 UTC (Fri) by frazier (subscriber, #3060) [Link]

A brief update:

We're working with Ubuntu to get our packages set with the UserLinux marks removed that are in them today. The intent with the mark protections was to make it possible to have software that could have a respectable certification barrier (by attaching certification marks that aren't required for software operation), but not restrict the actual software by hard-wiring in those marks. The new changes will allow for Userlinux packages to be used readily (minus the UserLinux marks) outside of UserLinux, which is the way things should be.

In otherwords, everything is being resolved nicely.

-Brock

Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu

Posted Mar 29, 2005 16:57 UTC (Tue) by aaron (guest, #282) [Link]

That's weird, I thought UserLinux was open-source.

Oh well, if you want to look like an ass and punish someone for putting a fair bit of effort into helping UserLinux get to people's desktops, go for it. I'm sure it'll be the best thing for everyone.

Ah, the joys of petty fiefdoms,
Aaron

Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu

Posted Mar 29, 2005 17:42 UTC (Tue) by frazier (subscriber, #3060) [Link]

Ubuntu with a UserLinux wrapper is still Ubuntu.

> That's weird, I thought UserLinux was open-source.

UserLinux is free software (and open source).

We do have protections on our marks though, so businesses using UserLinux will know they are using UserLinux and not something else (such as Ubuntu with a UserLinux art package).

If you haven't read through the Mark Protection Policy ( http://www.userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mark_Protection_... ), it explains why the restrictions on the name and logo are necessary (note that keeping the software free is an important value mentioned in point #4 under Restrictions). If you have any further questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

Mark protection is very common in more established non-profit organizations because they have seen abuses over time. Free software is very young compared to the likes of the American Red Cross or the Better Business Bureau who have been around for many decades. They have learned the lessons that are emerging for free software today.

An example of mark protection activity for an organization in action:
http://www.arbforum.com/domains/decisions/103926.htm

-Brock

Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu

Posted Mar 29, 2005 20:37 UTC (Tue) by mjr (subscriber, #6979) [Link]

While I do think that Bruce could've jumped at the suggestion to work together with Ubuntu, since the goals of the two projects seem rather similar from where I'm standing, seems to me that the UserLinux people do have valid trademark concerns.

Not that I think providing such "Ubuntu-flavored UserLinux" metapackages is a bad thing, as they could be useful for some people. I'm sure it can be done in a way not to confuse people on what they have running. "userubuntu", anyone? ;)

Experimental UserLinux packages for Ubuntu

Posted Mar 29, 2005 23:20 UTC (Tue) by BrucePerens (subscriber, #2510) [Link]

I knew this was going on. These packages give you a package complement similar to that in a UserLinux install. They probably should say "Similar to UserLinux" or "UserLinux Flavored". The project folks did a lot of work on the trademark policy, with input from things that went wrong with Debian's trademarks.

The packages give you a similar package selection to UserLinux, but not support from the UserLinux support organization - which is OK since Ubuntu has better support at the moment anyway.

Bruce