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Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw)
Groklaw
looks at the European software patent issue:
"Well, kiddies, take a look at this decision, by the Technical Board of Appeal, on an appeal by, sad to say, IBM, in which the appeal board found a way to say that maybe computer programs can be patented after all, even under the current rules. It's found in the EPO's journal for October of 1999. I thought you might like to see the EU equivalent to the US case, State Street Bank & Trust v. Signature Financial Group. Both in the US and in Europe, the beginnings were small and everyone said software couldn't be patented except in very restricted circumstances, and then the slide begins."
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Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 18, 2005 8:28 UTC (Fri) by petegn (guest, #847) [Link] there is only one thing to say ..
You can not patent the way an collection of words and numbers are written down next thing you know if this is allowed to continue we will have to invent a new language because they will have patented every concieveable combination of words and called it there property .
This all stems from that pathetic prostetic prat in Redmond billyboy wank tank goatie gates and his bunch of SHEEP .
Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 18, 2005 14:14 UTC (Fri) by chel (guest, #11544) [Link] "This all stems from that pathetic prostetic prat in Redmond billyboy wank tank goatie gates and his bunch of SHEEP ."
I think you can get a patent on SHEEP
Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 21, 2005 10:39 UTC (Mon) by jdv (subscriber, #712) [Link] ... next thing you know if this is allowed to continue we will have to invent a new language because they will have patented every concieveable combination of words ...That won't even help, since what is expressed is what gets patented, not the expression itself. So they will patent anything that can ever be said, in any language... Jan
Much ado about nothing? Posted Mar 18, 2005 8:50 UTC (Fri) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link] I have been wondering - is this really such a big issue? Yes, I can see all the scary stories one can spin on this, but look at it from another angle. The patent system as it is now is already staggering under the strain of trying to deal with a flood of increasingly absurd patents. I think adding software to it will tip it over the edge fairly quickly. The result, in my mind, will be that on one hand, the smaller inventors will by necessity find a radical new way around the whole issue, something along the lines of free or nearly free sharing of ideas perhaps; and on the other hand the big corporations will get locked in a perpetual struggle against each other for a while until they realise that the world has moved on.
What is certain is that the patent system is coming to an end. It was made to protect the interests of inventors in a world that was much simpler, where it was actually feasible to analyse an invention and check whether it had already been made by somebody else. This is no longer possible, and it will have to be scrapped, eventually.
Much ado about nothing? Posted Mar 18, 2005 9:10 UTC (Fri) by daniel (subscriber, #3181) [Link] "I have been wondering - is this really such a big issue?"
Yes it is. I'm glad you feel sanguine about it, but I do not. And I am not willing to suffer for twenty years waiting hopefully for the system to destroy itself.
Regards,
Daniel
Much ado about nothing? Posted Mar 18, 2005 10:02 UTC (Fri) by tousavelo (guest, #27022) [Link] You mention small inventors and large corporations with a scenario.
Large corporations might struggle against each other. Alternatively, they could also choose to somehow coordinate and first bring small inventors out of business. The strange thing with patent is that the patent holder might say that he will not bother you, for now, but attacks might come in the future, aimed at any third party considered "hostile". For instance, the small inventor might not be attacked until the day the inventor turns into a medium-size profitable/rich company.
Yeah. It's *only* russian roulete Posted Mar 18, 2005 12:20 UTC (Fri) by rmstar (guest, #3672) [Link] I agree with you that patent system is fundamentally broken. And it is also under a decent amount of sustained fire (The Economist regularily vents some steam at it, for instance; Scientific American had until recently a "Staking Claims" column on riduclous patents). However, nobody knows how long it will take for it to suffer a significant amount of damage, and also, nobody knows what will happen then.Look at what happened in the EU, where larger corporations and the patent office, when it comes down to it, can leverage more power than the parliaments and governments of ~7 countries. While doing so, they broke rules and are getting away with it!. This is not the kind of group that wakes up one morning saying "oops, it's not right what we are doing. Guess we have to change". In the meanwhile, you are just playing russian roulete whenever you open a webshop, put together some cute script, etc. because it may happen that someone comes to ruin you, wanting to take with them your money and your business. And if this crap passes, there is a good chance that they will have the legal right to do so.
Much ado about nothing? Posted Mar 18, 2005 17:54 UTC (Fri) by uravanbob (subscriber, #4050) [Link] You missed the point regarding patents. Patents cover 'ideas', this is what makes them so dangerous - that and coupling them to software and business methods. If someone had the gall to patent for instance, the use of lists to model objects in an industrial control system, then NO ONE else would be allowed to do this 'patently obvious' thing without a conceivably costly court battle. Patents were intended to stimulate invention not provide a stranglehold on competition. Large corps like patents, they just sign share and share alike agreements and lock out the small individuals who in the growing software patent world will soon not be able to write anything of significance due to it's infringing one patent or another. I've been writing software for over 30 years and I feel betrayed and cheated that the original mechanism (copyrights) under which I embarked on this path has been superceded by something so ill conceived as the modern patent.
5000+ rounds and acquiring more. Oops, there I go getting on a list again.
crashing patent system Posted Mar 19, 2005 4:51 UTC (Sat) by XERC (guest, #14626) [Link] ...big corporations will get locked in a perpetual struggle against each other...What is certain is that the patent system is coming to an end... This is no longer possible, and it will have to be scrapped, eventually. I think that they sign crosslicensing agreements. Think Samsung and Sony and LCD-displays(they even share a factory), or think Microsoft's big plans. Look at the US. How long has the current patent system been there? I've read that practically since 1980. Does it seems like it's crashing or something? Even the copyright got extended(read: the "experiment" called "public domain" has reached its end).
Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 18, 2005 14:07 UTC (Fri) by philips (guest, #937) [Link] Another point to consider, especially by U.S. readers, that European court system is not much based on cases.
So even if in one case something was decided one way, doesn't mean second similar case will be decided the same way.
In Europe lots of things are dependent on judge and they have more room for manouvre, compared to U.S. ones.
At least to me, after few cases I have reviewed, local judges sometimes are more to rational thinking, than to trying to interpret out-dated law or find similar case. That's actually why here there is no stupid labels/warnings on products: several cases in Europe were thrown out on base that "idiot will always find a way to screw himself (if he wants to), but producers of goods cannot be held responsible for every living idiot". (Not a quote)
As patents are concerned, European Patent Office is much more rational in patent granting.
True danger is that "Patent Regime Hormonization" can (and will) bring to Europe those stupid silly shitty patents granted by USPTO (a-la Amazon's "One Click buy" patent).
Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 18, 2005 16:20 UTC (Fri) by allesfresser (guest, #216) [Link] Please people, can we keep the language above orc-level? (this is also addressed to petegn above)
Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 21, 2005 14:24 UTC (Mon) by arafel (subscriber, #18557) [Link] Please bear in mind that not everyone speaks fluent English. (Although in petegn's case, that doesn't excuse the last sentence/paragraph.)
Slip, Sliding Away on Software Patents (Groklaw) Posted Mar 18, 2005 16:21 UTC (Fri) by pdsdst (subscriber, #19395) [Link] So what do you think about this patent (granted by the European Patent Office)?http://gauss.ffii.org/PatentView/EP927945
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