Future of the Mozilla Application Suite (MozillaZine) [LWN.net]

Future of the Mozilla Application Suite (MozillaZine)

Posted Mar 11, 2005 14:30 UTC (Fri) by alspnost (subscriber, #2763) [Link]

It seems a shame to have come this far - to a 1.8b release with lots of new engineering under the hood - and not finish the job. I could understand them quitting after 1.8, but I'd really like to have seen that one make it to a final release. Now we're left with a beta as the 'end of the road', though I know the community effort might be able to take it forward.

I'm a Firefox convert now, but I certainly still have the suite installed, and there are still some things about it that I prefer.

But anyway, thanks, Mozilla, for being the browser that powered my online life from 2002-2004!

1.8 WILL be released, just not as "Mozilla"

Posted Mar 11, 2005 14:52 UTC (Fri) by KaiRo (subscriber, #1987) [Link]

As you can read in the comments to the earlier news post, and what is meant by the mentioned "community effort", there _will_ be future releases of the internet suite now called "Mozilla".

We're currently working under the long-time suite codename "SeaMonkey" to set up the new core development team around that project and clearing up some issues that are left (e.g. if we can/will keep the mentioned name or not).

We very likely WILL release what was expected to be "Mozilla 1.8", but we will release it under a different name, maybe even a different version number. Until we have the team settled and have some further talks with the Mozilla Foundation (which thankfully will provide us with quite some infrastructure), the details aren't completely sure.

It currently looks like the suite will actually be more actively developed in the future than in the last 1 or 2 years, so if you still like that product, stay with us. You will get even real improvements after the 1.8 release :)

1.8 WILL be released, just not as "Mozilla"

Posted Mar 11, 2005 22:46 UTC (Fri) by petegn (guest, #847) [Link]

I must admit i see this as playing into the hands of M$ Corp . Why just when something is going nicley thank you do people always come along and start breaking them up .

I know people say Firefox is cut down Mozilla but i for one cant stand Firefox or Thunderbird and find Mozilla far better even thou i do not use the Mozilla mail system < Please stop monkeying around and keep Mozilla going even if it does mean Firefox gets foxed .. Mozilla rules the roost.

1.8 WILL be released, just not as "Mozilla"

Posted Mar 12, 2005 1:45 UTC (Sat) by darthmdh (guest, #8032) [Link]

"Playing into the hands of M$ Corp" is spreading the kind of FUD in your post. Seamonkey was never meant to be an end-user product, and was always advertised in that light. That it happened to be so good that many end-users loved it is irrelevent. This plan (no longer releasing the suite) has been public knowledge for around 3 years; that they're finally acting on it is a good thing.

There's nothing preventing you from downloading the code and building your own. Never has been, and if I'm reading the articles properly (that another group will be taking over 'the suite' releases), never will be.

1.8 WILL be released, just not as "Mozilla"

Posted Mar 13, 2005 2:01 UTC (Sun) by KaiRo (subscriber, #1987) [Link]

Please don't spread FUD here. With the work our new group will be doing, you still will get the suite, just under a different name (and probably even version number).

We have plans for getting the release that was meant to be "Mozilla 1.8" out the door, and we have even bigger plans for the time beyond that. We're in the process of sorting this all out, and the publication of that transition document was one of the first resultes of our efforts (before that we heard only words that "Mozilla Foundation has no plans on 1.8" but no real specifics or what has to be done to get something released).
We're working on it and I'm sure LWN will be among the first to know when we have details to hand out to the public.

Breaking free from AOL or whoever?

Posted Mar 12, 2005 15:39 UTC (Sat) by doodaddy (guest, #10649) [Link]

I can't even remember which big company has its hands all over Netscape/Mozilla any more, but this is a good play to "fork" off of the semi-corporate version.

First, FireFox has become the name brand for most people, and a NYT ad is out to force it. Then the other components, Thunderbird (mail) and the calendar are out for most people to try as if they were regular, individual products.

That just leaves the core libraries, XUL (GUI), Javascript (SeaMonkey?), and the HTML render engine to be worked on. Many more apps could be written from these as long as they keep up with other toolkits (like Qt and QSA). It sounds like they want to fork, er, move these under another name, possibly away from corporate meddling. The web developers will be able to pick up the new name, whatever it is, without much confusion.

Perhaps they can't admit this type of plan out loud? For legal reasons?

Breaking free from AOL or whoever?

Posted Mar 13, 2005 2:10 UTC (Sun) by KaiRo (subscriber, #1987) [Link]

1) While Netscape (the trademark, the company is dead) is still with AOL, the Mozilla trademark and Foundation have been independent for more than a year now, after the remaining Netscape staff had been laid off.

2) We don't fork off anything. That's exactly what we want to avoid. We take over development of the not-any-more-prime internet suite product (until now called "Mozilla 1.x", internally called SeaMonkey).

3) The core libraries and stuff will stay under the Mozilla Foundation, powering the prime Mozilla products Firefox and Thunderbird, as well as Sunbird, Nvu, Camino, some others - and the new-named suite product.

Details will be announced as soon as we ourselves really are sure of them.

An interesting approach

Posted Mar 14, 2005 7:06 UTC (Mon) by jd (guest, #26381) [Link]

I've used Netscape/Mozilla before Netscape even reached the giddy heights of 1.0. I consider those who have worked on the code (past and present) to have a good insight into what works and what doesn't. If I recall correctly, the Mozilla that was originally open-sourced by Netscape went through some major changes early on, especially in rendering. I see this as a continuation of that process, rather than something radically new and different.

It is interesting because Mozilla is following the traditional Unix design (specialist tools with a common base, rather than a single integrated package) and seems to be more guiding the developers than the other way around. Maybe there's more to the Book of Mozilla than first meets the eye. :)

It is also historically interesing, in that the family tree is one of the most successful and enduring. There have been many other browsers, over time. Oracle's "Power Browser", the various W3C browsers, Multicast Mosaic, Sun's "Hot Java" browser, ad infinitum. Most of these can now only be found as fossils in some of the deeper sedimentary layers of the Internet. Those that have survived are increasingly pushed into the fringes.

Based on what I've seen, I think it likely Mozilla & co. will continue to be evolutionary, rather than revolutionary. This makes the development boring to watch, from the outside, but past experience seems to show that it offers a better chance of having development to watch.

Even so, it would be cool if someone could add metafont rendering... Font support in HTML is horrible, as it relies on a font being installed beforehand, which you can't check. Fonts are also often binary and non-portable. Being able to include a TeX-style metafont, the same way you can a cascading style sheet, would seem much more in the spirit of HTML. On the other hand, those extinct browsers also had lots of really cool ideas. I'd rather something that worked than something that died. Maybe it's just as well nobody pays much attention to my ideas.