Return to the Press page

Vyatta – Linux & Open Source Alternative to Cisco – Advanced Routing, Firewall, VPN, QoS..
Free Download ->

LWN.net Weekly Edition for October 2, 2008

openSUSE and the distribution of proprietary software

Weekly edition	Kernel	Security	Distributions	Search
Archives	Calendar	Subscribe	Write for LWN	LWN.net FAQ

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

[Posted October 7, 2004 by cook]

The Register covers comments by Sun's CEO Scott McNealy on the recent cooperation between Microsoft and Sun. ""Who else are they going to choose as their second source? You know, Sun and Microsoft aren't that competitive. We don't do MSN, we don't do Xbox, we don't do applications. They don't do computers, storage or infrastructure." "They weren't going to do it with Larry (Oracle). They weren't going to do it with IBM. They can't stand IBM. They at least respect us. They really don't like IBM. And they hate the GPL.""

(Log in to post comments)

Posted Oct 7, 2004 18:43 UTC (Thu) by wcrosman (guest, #25275) [Link]

Those comments make me happy I voted my proxies to get rid of McNealy. He's done nothing of late except run Sun into the ground. He changes his mind more often than what Bush thinks Kerry does.

Not long ago he was all for Linux so that he could crush Sun.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 7, 2004 18:44 UTC (Thu) by wcrosman (guest, #25275) [Link]

Oops, I meant Microsoft

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 7, 2004 19:06 UTC (Thu) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]

I wish more people with stock behaved like you. I'm sick and tired of the lying, cheating, betrayal, backstabbing, and political manipulation that has become the backbone of American corporate life.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 7, 2004 19:21 UTC (Thu) by fx (guest, #12077) [Link]

In the US, corporate power does not manipulate the political system, it simply *is* the political system.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 8, 2004 7:21 UTC (Fri) by davidw (subscriber, #947) [Link]

Oh, hogwash.

That sounds more like a slashdot-type statement than what I'd expect here on LWN.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 9, 2004 17:58 UTC (Sat) by drhhcox (guest, #4769) [Link]

You haven't been paying attention. For the last 10 years (at least) corporate America has owned,literally, most politicians of both parties. It's all about the money boys.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 8, 2004 22:14 UTC (Fri) by larryr (guest, #4030) [Link]

I think Sun has continued to be a good citizen. I think it is in their and my best interest (as a user) to try to cooperate/synergize with Microsoft, and I agree with the conclusion of the article:

There simply isn't a conspiracy between Sun, Microsoft and SCO to kill Linux. There is a business plan to thwart Red Hat. This should not shock anyone. It should be expected. Red Hat has warm, fuzzy feelings behind it, but it is not the open source community as a whole. It's a company every bit as aggressive as the next. Sun and Microsoft are trying to make this point painfully clear.

Larry

Sing a Dirge for the Sun as it Sets one Final Time

Posted Oct 7, 2004 20:17 UTC (Thu) by AnswerGuy (subscriber, #1256) [Link]

Getting in bed with Microsoft this way can only be an act of desperation and
can only mean that Sun is in big trouble.

Can anyone name any Microsoft partner who as flourished in the long run?

Can anyone see synergy in this relationship?

Can anyone see any reason for Microsoft to have any desire to leave a niche for Sun when they'd desparately prefer to have their OS front and center in the data center. Microsoft would like to make some descendent of MS Windows 2003 a replacement for all UNIX and MVS, they've said so many times in the past. They can't possibly port Windows to SPARC (they've shown an incredible lack of portability in the past with MIPS and Alpha).

So this is a temporary alliance at best. A spasmodic reactionary reflex at worst. I don't see how any (prospective) customer could see any value added by a Sun/Microsoft partnership.

Ugh!

JimD

Sing a Dirge for the Sun as it Sets one Final Time

Posted Oct 7, 2004 20:44 UTC (Thu) by emkey (guest, #144) [Link]

I agree. This is the move of a desperate man. I used to think McNealy was a fairly bright guy. He's a bit young to be going senile so either I was wrong or he's been bought off by Microsoft. Neither possibility leaves me feeling very impressed with the guy.

This does make me nervous about the future of OpenOffice.

Sing a Dirge for the Sun as it Sets one Final Time

Posted Oct 8, 2004 10:06 UTC (Fri) by petegn (guest, #847) [Link]

well all we gotta do is hope the pact winds up killing them both stone dead and as for suns decission to pay Kodac $92 million well what thew heck was all that about screw Kodac in fact screw the whole darn lot of them M$ Corp Sun Sco Kodac corrupt leagal systems that work for the one with the fattest wallet /biggest cheque book Ploititions that are nothing but mouth ie Bush Blair what a twat .

In fact stuff it give ma a rocket i wanna got start a colony on mars out the flamin way .

Pete .

Sun is a bit like old Caldera

Posted Oct 7, 2004 20:18 UTC (Thu) by error27 (subscriber, #8346) [Link]

No one really liked old Caldera even though they contributed a ton to open source. Sun contributes a lot too but if they try an anti-redhat drive no one will really like them.

Sun really needs a new, cooler CEO like Steve Jobs.

Sun is a bit like old Caldera

Posted Oct 7, 2004 20:48 UTC (Thu) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link]

Mr. Jobs is not exactly a friend of free software, despite Mac OS X's dependence on BSD.

Sun is a bit like old Caldera

Posted Oct 7, 2004 23:22 UTC (Thu) by dkite (guest, #4577) [Link]

McNealy is in fact a good friend to free software.

You see, the Koffice, Abiword, Gnumeric folks got together with McNealy
and asked for help. After a long discussion a diabolically effective
strategy was developed. McNealy would publicly and often bad-mouth free
software projects. He wouldn't miss an occasion to highlight his close
and wonderful relationship with Microsoft. His engineers would criticize
free software projects.

This would make developers and users who depend on OpenOffice very
nervous, and support the various free applications. It seems to be
working so far.

Just half joking of course.

Derek

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 7, 2004 22:35 UTC (Thu) by philips (guest, #937) [Link]

Cannot resist:

> Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat

And who will need Sun when all enemies are defeated?

Not M$, nor IBM, neither Red Hat/OSS community.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 7, 2004 23:20 UTC (Thu) by huffd (guest, #10382) [Link]

I for one appreciated the sentiment. McNealy is being a prophet for Gates, he's predicting that without Red Hat Linux will fold or some other such notion. Microsoft needs Sun more than *anybody* needs Sun, to keep the monopoly from being sued again. McNealy's Sun is in bed with the devil and will only survive as Bill Gates(of Hell) wants them to.
Right now that is the sole reason for Sun's existence, the sooner people figure that out the brighter the future will be.

Of course Sun and Microsoft are working together...

Posted Oct 8, 2004 0:37 UTC (Fri) by jvotaw (subscriber, #3678) [Link]

Who do you think smoked up Active Directory if it wasn't a bunch of old NIS+ programmers?

Of course, it's even more elegant this time -- let's call it NIS#.

-Joel ;-)

Of course Sun and Microsoft are working together...

Posted Oct 8, 2004 10:22 UTC (Fri) by petegn (guest, #847) [Link]

well in that case it's open source is it not .. can em hang em high

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 8, 2004 0:43 UTC (Fri) by kornak (guest, #17589) [Link]

I am so confused. SUN has done so many good and bad things lately. They have
some of the best engineers in the industry. Management should just shut up
and let the engineers do their thing. Anybody check out Looking Glass? It's
pretty slick...

http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/details.html

https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/

Maybe there's hope if such creativity still exists at SUN.

Now, if they could just add some Perl hooks into Looking Glass it would be
perfect!!

Letting Sun be Sun...

Posted Oct 8, 2004 14:25 UTC (Fri) by sphealey (guest, #1028) [Link]

I am so confused. SUN has done so many good and bad things lately. They have some of the best engineers in the industry. Management should just shut up and let the engineers do their thing.

Problem is, Sun has no business model left. None. Linux and Intel are rapidly chewing up the low end, and there isn't enough room for Sun, HP, and IBM all in the midrange.

Sun lived for a long time on the DEC-style profit margins (some of which went to good engineering and support, some of which went to fat living for the bureaucracy) but those margins are gone forever. In a war among Sun, IBM, and HP I have to guess the outcome will be IBM and HP with Sun disappearing.

No matter what they do they are doomed. And the first thing you are taught in lifeguard training is: beware the drowning man - he will drag you under in his death struggle.

sPh

Letting Sun be Sun...

Posted Oct 8, 2004 15:24 UTC (Fri) by bruno (guest, #4387) [Link]

Yes, but there is more.

IBM and HP have an important consulting division, the consulting division
of Sun is a joke. IBM and HP sell really fast and big hardware, Sun is
years behind. IBM earns money selling software (Websphere, DB2...), Sun
sells software, but didn't earn money. IBM and HP can sacrifice some of
their low markets to Linux if they gain others, but for Sun, low and
midrange hardware markets are the only markets.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 8, 2004 14:59 UTC (Fri) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]

50 to 100 years from now, when all this junk is commoditized, and software engineering is just ans open and clear as architecture, maybe the whole business will make sense.

I just hope some hostile ET doesn't show up here before we learn to cooperate with one another.

McNealy: Microsoft needs Sun to beat IBM and Red Hat (Register)

Posted Oct 8, 2004 15:11 UTC (Fri) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link]

I was going to be asking my division to buy a large cluster of 4 way Opterons from Sun before I read this. Sun can find some other sucker to pick them up.